Starter Kit Melee: All units are broken?

robertdelwood

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What happens in starter kit scenarios if all units in a Melee are broken?

Does the Melee counter come off and the units can rout?
 

robertdelwood

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Thanks. That'd be my guess, too.

1) Does it say that in the SK rules book?

2) I assume the Melee counter comes off immediately when there are only broken units in hex. That means the phasing player must rout, but the non-phasing player would not have to, barring other rules.
 
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Jwil2020

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What happens in starter kit scenarios if all units in a Melee are broken?

Does the Melee counter come off and the units can rout?
I am assuming that by ALL you mean all units of both sides.
Second to last paragraph under 3.8 Close Combat implies there must be an unbroken infantry unit left in the hex for the units to be locked in Melee.
3.6 Rout Phase states that a broken unit in the same location with known enemy broken units may not have to rout, but would have the option if under DM. Although, other unbroken KEU outside the hex may force the rout of the broken units.

Also, CC Phase is after RtPh, so the rout does not take place until the next turn's upcoming RtPh. There is no routing in the CCPh.
 

klasmalmstrom

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I think the Melee counter comes off immediately when they all break.
 

klasmalmstrom

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1) Does it say that in the SK rules book?

2) I assume the Melee counter comes off immediately when there are only broken units in hex. That means the phasing player must rout, but the non-phasing player would not have to, barring other rules.
Rule 3.8, next-to-last paragraph, last sentence:
"...Remove the Melee counter as soon as no unbroken unit remains."
 

Jwil2020

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That means the phasing player must rout, but the non-phasing player would not have to, barring other rules.
Remember, only a unit under a DM counter may rout. Simply being a broken unit in the same hex with another enemy broken unit does not by itself make that unit eligible for DM (first 2 sentences of 3.6). It is assumed that the units in the Melee stack were broken during a fire phase in which case they would have been marked DM after flipping to their broken side.
 

robertdelwood

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Not specifically.

It also doesn't say to remove the Melee counter when all units are eliminated. ;)
That wasn't criticism or sarcasm on my part. I might have just missed that reference.

If you're the rules Perry, this might be good to explicitly update next round.
 
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Robin Reeve

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That wasn't criticism or sarcasm on my part. I might have just missed that reference.

If you're the rules Perry, this might be good to explicitly update next round.
No worry, Perry wasn't implying that you were using sarcasm. He was just answering in good humour and underlining that some instructions are not in the rules.
I don't think that there is a need to edit the rule on such a trivial point - especially as Klas has cited the line which directly answers your specific question.
We it comes to rules questions, people here are usually good hearted. Don't suppose that they would mock you.
 

klasmalmstrom

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Simply being a broken unit in the same hex with another enemy broken unit does not by itself make that unit eligible for DM...
It does, last paragraph of rule 3.2.3:
A broken unit not under DM that becomes adjacent to a Known Enemy Unit or is attacked by enough FP (taking the possibility of Cowering into account) to possibly inflict a NMC is placed under DM.

Same as in ASL - a broken unit in the same hex or adjacent is enough to cause DM.
 

Robin Reeve

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All questions have been adressed, thanks to Klas' expertise. 👍
 

Jwil2020

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Klas,
As always, I'll defer to your expertise. Yes, I am aware of the clause you cite. However, the last paragraph of Rule 3.2.3 refers to a broken unit that becomes adjacent to a KEU. It does not say "In the same hex." Although, one would think it would have the same effect.

I guess my confusion arises from the first sentences of 3.6, "During the RtPh a broken unit not in Melee may not end a RtPh adjacent to or in the same location as an unbroken Known Enemy Unit and may not remain unemplaced in the same Open Ground location in the normal range and LOS of a Known Good Order enemy unit that would be able to interdict it if it were routing in that hex (see below). Such a unit is placed under a DM counter and if not in Melee must rout away...'

From this I gather that a broken unit not in Melee may end a RtPh in the same hex as a broken KEU, and not have a to be marked DM.

Again, if we are talking about units (formerly) in a Melee stack, my thinking is they probably would have been broken as the result of a fire phase, and therefore would have been placed under DM already. Which perhaps makes it a moot question anyway.

I await your insight and thank you in advance.
 

Perry

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So I'm not Klas, but being in the same hex means you are adjacent to each other, and being adjacent to a Known enemy unit imposes DM even if it does not require (because it is broken) the DM unit to rout.
 

Jwil2020

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Thanks Perry. I'll add the words "or in the same hex" to the last para of 3.2.3 in my RB to help my old brain remember. :)
Wishing you and MMP a Happy New Year!
 
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