Stacking and Trenches Q

[Oberst Hausser]

Hi,

What a new format, is this the Windows 10 version ?

I would like to know the correct stacking for a TRENCH.

It seems that a GUN with crew is "equivalent" to 1 MMC per "

27.51 Trench counters may only be placed one per hex prior to play as per scenario OB. A trench (including an A-T Ditch) may not occupy the same Location as a foxhole. A trench may never hold more than three squads and four SMC or their equivalents.

So - all these are legal??

1) 88L AA, 75 L ATG and 75Inf all in the same TRENCH ( with different facings)
2) any 1 of the above and 2 MMC with any SW and a SMC
3) Take 2 MMC and create 4 HS with 4 HMG and a 10-2

I could show you a map with some hills - let's say- and lots of open ground to view and with just 2 trench make it virtually impossible
to (for the opponent) to do diddly squat.

I have played the Devil's Advocate here but the question still remains..

Thank you

 

[Honosbinda]

stacking in a trench as you say per rule 27.51. There is no reason to doubt this. You already know the correct stacking, it seems. The question doesn't remain as far as I can tell!

1) yes or the same facings
2) yes
3) yes you can do this in a building too it's done all the time playing RB as I am sure you know already.

Maybe if your opponent doesn't have smoke or OBA there will be some problems with doing 'diddly squat'. or airpower with bombs/napalm. etc. nothing is impregnable and if it's that tough to take, operationally the enemy would bypass the stronghold and isolate it. Normal military activity! Although there wouldn't be an ASL scenario in that case

 

[Oberst Hausser]

The question is in a NOT more than 4m square (per trench) you can virtually decimate any enemy in LOS !!!!

I don't wish to question whether it is possible to put - for example- an 88L AA with any other "support" in a trench
let alone let's say at 13 hexes ( no Russian SW capable of return ( exc 50mm) -->> the German could just virtually wipe out a Russian attack.

Just say'in

 

[Oberst Hausser]

Ohh and there is a scenario where that will be possible eventually, namely the mini CG ( Kharkov 42) that I am presently game testing. Which is why I asked the question. Evil laughter in the background....

Oh Lordy...

 

[Honosbinda]

Are the Russians not allowed to use OBA, air or smoke then? Are they that stupid? I mean, if the hypothetical situation is one thing for the German, are you disallowing sensible hypothetical alternatives for the Russian? Or are you questioning the ASL design allowing this in the first place? Do the German guns or MGs never roll a 12? is not a human wave with 26 458s possible with bad German rolls? Sorry I disagree the Russians are helpless here unless you are making sure that they are.

We had this guy in our game group who liked to do this DYO -- make some stack on a hill that 'we didn't know what was there' until he revealed a 10-3 with three HMGs then declare heavy winds so we couldn't use smoke, no OBA allowed, etc... give me a break

 

[Oberst Hausser]

Yes after their AFV best leader and numerous MMC have been sent to Valhalla.

Not to mention possible encircling fire combinations.

It does not need saying that the German ( in this case) will "lead on" the enemy into a truly
devastating kill zone as described. One would hope there is a prepared "way out" given the
thought that will have been applied.

Mmm imagine some blocking wire before the main event... OR
That the above is developed as flanking fire ( i.e. behind trees) into areas that
the enemy has to get to to get VC etc

Thanks for the answers, just wanted to check what is permitted. )

 

[Vinnie]

Played a scenario on Friday where I set up 6 crews and 6 hmg 9-2 in one hex....
Sure it could blow away anything it could see, but only what it could see.

If you are going to concentrate everything in one place, it leaves others unprotected.

 

[WuWei]

A trench is +2 TEM, just as a normal gun emplacement, so what's the advantage of putting three guns in a trench instead of spreading them out?

 

[Vinnie]

Protection from oba and overrun.

 

[Mr Incredible]

So, all your eggs in one basket.

If you want a balanced game, you'd chuck in some combined arms and OBA with smoke to make it fair.

If you believe in supermen then leave it like that and destroy all before you or give the other side a 200mm pre-registered rocket OBA on that hex with 100 squads and 20 AFVs.

Whatever tickles your fancy,

 

[Oberst Hausser]

Its just that trenches are not very big , even WW1 ones which have the wood barriers etc. So I just wonder how a BIG 88 AA, 75 L ATG and 75 Art can fit into such a creation.

btw, I have now seen tanks reverse into individual stone buildings quite effectively, wo betold any HMG position behind the wall as graves won't be necessary,,\\

 

[jrv]

Trench counters represent deliberate (as opposed to hasty) earthen works of various kinds, not literally just slits in the ground two-four feet wide. Gun emplacements (and vehicle revetments) can be integral parts of those works, represented by placing the gun or vehicle under the trench.

JR