Kevin Kenneally
Elder Member
5th SS Wiking comes to mind about Foriegn units and how well they fought.
and the 6th Nord, and most of the III Germanic Korps under Steiner in 44.5th SS Wiking comes to mind about Foriegn units and how well they fought.
will send you an email, KevinKeith,
Got your info in the email.
Might think about the suggestion I sent for that particular unit.
Jon,
The Degrelle Legion (Named from the Commander), do you have any info on this unit in the SS?
ok sent you 4 document scans and some linksCool,
Thanks
From On All Fronts issues #73 & 76. Suggested treatment of Waffen SS units:
Elite = 658s
1st Leibstandarte
2nd Das Reich
3rd Totenkopf
5th Wiking
9th Hohenstaufen
10th Frundsberg
12th Hitler Jugend
1st Line = 468s
6th Nord
8th Florian Geyer
11th Nordland
15th Latvian 1
16th Reichsfuhrer SS
17th Gotz von Berlichingen
18th Horst Wessel
19th Latvian 2
20th Estonian 1
22nd Maria Theresia
23rd Nederland
27th Langemarck
28th Wallonien
33rd Charlemagne
36th Dirlewanger
38th Nibelungen
2nd Line = 548s
4th Polizei
7th Prinz Eugen
13th Handschar
14th Ukranian 1
25th Hunyadi
26th Hungaria (or Gombos)
31st Bohmen Mahren (or Batschka)
32nd 30 Januar
34th Landstorm Nederland
37th Lutzow
Green = 538s (Finn counters)
21st Skanderbeg
23rd Kama
24th Karstjager
29th Russian 1 (Kaminski)
29th Italian 1
30th White Russian 1
33rd Hungarian 3
35th Polizei Grenadier
658 Elite
ELR 4 for 1939/40 & 45
ELR 5 for 1941-44
468 1st Line
ELR 3 for 1939/40 & 45
ELR 4 for 1941-44
548 2nd Line
ELR 2 for 1939-41 & 45
ELR 3 for 1942-44
538 Green
ELR 2 for 1944-45
Issue 76 notes from another reader:
Assault fire should only apply to 658s in 1944-45 (StG44s)
Maybe no 658s prior to 1944 (perhaps 1943)
Elite should be 468s until 1944 when 658s show up
1st Line should be 468s until 1944 when change to 648s (might be typo)
2nd Line smoke available might be reduced to 1
Green units should be considered Inexp for HOB drm
Also consider many SS non German for Leader creation
Only Elite and 1st Line should retain broken morale 9
Elite should retain underscored morale even when ELR 4
His suggested changes to divisional chart:
6th Nord should be 2nd Line in 1941 (or ELR 3 as lesser penalty)
7th PrEg should be Green in 1945 (21st SS replacements)
13th Hnd should be Green (mutiny and desertions)
17th GvB should be ELR 3 in Oct 1944 (many replacements)
34th LdN should be 1st Line
36th Drl should be Green (criminals)
I seem to remember an article about treating many of the later divisions (which did not actually reach anywhere near XX strength) as Axis Minor troops. If the XX was composed of Balkan/Slavic mostly use the Axis Minor counters. There is a scenario that used Axis Minors for Ukrainian SS in Warsaw 1944 IIRC.
it would depend on :does anyone know what a regular SS rifle platoon would have carried for an individual weapon compared to a SS Sturm platoon?
Jon,ok sent you 4 document scans and some links
That article seems pretty well thought out. I don't know if 4th "Polizei" should be so low.
I don't really like the idea that a squad's quality level should apply for certain units entirely. At least here is a good baseline to start with. Axis Minor would be fine for some more riff raff formations.
12SS Panzer Division DEC 44it would depend on :
A. unit itself by designation
B. Date being examined
C. nationality / origin of the unit
KRL, jon H
I would sincerely HOPE you are not allowing Glenn to "rub off" on you...:laugh:Personally I think a more variety of units in the company would better simulation WW2 in general and we could expand this out to all Nationalities.
For example one could say a 1941 German Infantry company was:
[Matrix]
[1,2,3,2] x 4-6-8
[9,7,8,6] x 4-6-7
[2,1,1,4] x 4-4-7
* Note the totals add up to 12 in any one of the column selectors.
Same with every nationality.
Russian 42-43
[Matrix]
[1,0,3,2] x 4-5-8
[9,7,3,6] x 4-4-7
[1,2,3,4] x 5-2-7
[1,3,3,0] x 4-3-6
Ect.
Heck one could use these matrix's to build company level type OOBs for a scenario, man not only am I cute and cuddly, I am smart too...Glennbo must be rubbing off on me ...lol...
a Rifle Company from this designation, circa 15 Dec 1944: ( my interpretations only)12SS Panzer Division DEC 44
Rub-a-dub-dub, three men in a tub...lol (could not resist) :laugh:I would sincerely HOPE you are not allowing Glenn to "rub off" on you...:laugh:
In any case, fully agree with the concept, and further, it is something that I think could be easily developed to fit well within another aspect, SASL company generation tables. ( you should pass the idea along to Jurgen H., dear Donski.)
I think a larger proportion of both scenarios and newer HASLs RGs are taking such things into account. you have a scattering of units from Elite to poor quality in many cases, and there are RNG procedures to spread CG RGs into multi - quality forces.
KRL, Jon H
The article was written many years ago but it is a start. I'd go with witchtits idea if I was to do anything on my own.That article seems pretty well thought out. I don't know if 4th "Polizei" should be so low.
I don't really like the idea that a squad's quality level should apply for certain units entirely. At least here is a good baseline to start with. Axis Minor would be fine for some more riff raff formations.