Spotters (C9.3)

Nearmiss

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Greetings to the council,

Situation: CX Spotter and non-CX crew manning a Mortar.

Does the +1 for CX apply to Spotted Fire?
 

von Marwitz

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"A4.51 COUNTER EXHAUSTION (CX): CX units must add one to any labor task or attack DR they make or direct (+1 to To Hit DR for ordnance; +1 to IFT DR for all others). ..."

"C9.3 Spotters: ... Spotting is considered the equivalent of using a SW for purposes of movement curtailment and inherent FP loss; ..."

Good question.

C9.3 never uses the word "directing" in describing the Spotter's activity. I could not quickly find any definition of "attack" in the ASLRB, but using a SW sure would be (though I am not sure about a Radio, which is a SW...). Yet, spotting is only considered an SW usage for the highlighted purposes.

So I would tend to the interpretation that the CX penalty of the Spotter would not apply to the attack.
Let's see, what the gurus have to say on this.

von Marwitz
 

Nearmiss

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Von Marwitz,

You devalue the importance of your input. I agree with you in every respect. I believe the remaining council members will agree as well.
 

Binchois

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Possibly a red herring, but C9.3 does say:

A pinned Spotter in effect pins the mortar crew for attacks Spotted by the Spotter.
Also:

4.51 COUNTER EXHAUSTION (CX): CX units must add one to any labor task or attack DR they make or direct (+1 to To Hit DR for ordnance; +1 to IFT DR for all others).
I think if a pinned spotter would "in effect" pin the mortar the same might apply for CX, especially as one of the effects of CX is to add one to TH attempts - likely due to time/vision reality and not simply due to the men being winded.

It's a good question, and I think a good candidate for Perry! Though I agree, the RB seems NOT to say that CX is applicable here.
 

jrv

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Directing means applying leadership to per A7.53. Spotting is not directing. Among other reasons for thinking so, the spotter can be a MMC. Also per the C9.31 EX, a leader stacked with the spotter does not modify the TH DR, but one stacked with the unit that is, in the words of the example, "firing a SW mortar", does.

As best I read the rule, the spotting unit is not firing the mortar and its DRM do not apply except as noted. In particular, LOS Hindrances from the spotter apply and being pinned applies. Otherwise the DRM are based on the unit firing the weapon, which is to say the one that possesses it, e.g. non-qualified/captured use, CX, etc.

JR
 

jrv

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There are a lot of questions that I have about firer-based DRM, now that you raise the question. Some it seems pretty obvious must be based on the firing unit, i.e. the unit possessing the mortar. CA change is one of those.

For many of them I would think the DRM should apply if either unit is affected, e.g. bounding fire, motion/non-stopped, overstacked, encircled, BU (although I don't think is a vehicle mounting a mortar that can fire it while BU). It's not clear to me if these would be cumulative, i.e. doubled if both units are affected. I would put CX in this category. This is my opinion only, not what I think the rules say.

That said the rules seem to say that one unit is firing and the other unit is spotting. In the absence of rules to the contrary, I would read C9.3-.31 as saying that the firer- and target- based DRM are, where this is applicable, relative to the firing unit unless C9.3-.31 address that DRM specifically.

JR
 

von Marwitz

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I think if a pinned spotter would "in effect" pin the mortar the same might apply for CX, especially as one of the effects of CX is to add one to TH attempts - likely due to time/vision reality and not simply due to the men being winded.
In fact, I thought about this but decided not to mention it in my reply as I picture a CX guy merely panting while calling out the coordinates to the MTR crew while I see a Pinned guy crouching behind some wall. So at least in my mind this explains why one would me more affected than the other.

von Marwitz
 

von Marwitz

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Spotting is not directing. Among other reasons for thinking so, the spotter can be a MMC.
Excellent argument!

In the absence of rules to the contrary, I would read C9.3-.31 as saying that the firer- and target- based DRM are, where this is applicable, relative to the firing unit unless C9.3-.31 address that DRM specifically.
JR
Quid illud est negotii? Ze Oberst'sz limitit mind dos nott grasp wat ju are saying. Could ju plis talk administrative German or simplified English for occupying forcez?

von Marwitz
 
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