SPECIAL FORCES 2 from HoB

[Binko]

At one time I came up with a simple formula for comparing the "value of goods" of ASL products. It's just an estimating tool, of course, and doesn't get into subjective issues of quality.

$1 a scenario if bundled with maps or other stuff
$1.50 a scenario if only scenarios
$5 a mapboard
10$ a countersheet
$10 a magazine
$5 for detailed rules or other documentation

It tends to work out fairly well.
Action Pack 7 with 10 scenarios and 3 mapboards calculates to $25 and it can be bought on Gamer's Armory for $23.40.
Blood and Jungle with 47 scenarios, 4 countersheets, 3 mapboards, a magazine and rules docs calculates to $118 and can be bought for roughly $100.
Schwerpunkt 16 with 12 scenarios and a magazine calculates to $22 and you can buy it for $23.75

In this case, even being very generous with the 1/4 countersheet, it only calculates out to a value of goods of $21. The additional cost could be called a "sympathy surcharge" due to the demise of HOB.

 

[custardpie]

At one time I came up with a simple formula for comparing the "value of goods" of ASL products. It's just an estimating tool, of course, and doesn't get into subjective issues of quality.

$1 a scenario if bundled with maps or other stuff
$1.50 a scenario if only scenarios
$5 a mapboard
10$ a countersheet
$10 a magazine
$5 for detailed rules or other documentation

It tends to work out fairly well.
Action Pack 7 with 10 scenarios and 3 mapboards calculates to $25 and it can be bought on Gamer's Armory for $23.40.
Blood and Jungle with 47 scenarios, 4 countersheets, 3 mapboards, a magazine and rules docs calculates to $118 and can be bought for roughly $100.
Schwerpunkt 16 with 12 scenarios and a magazine calculates to $22 and you can buy it for $23.75

In this case, even being very generous with the 1/4 countersheet, it only calculates out to a value of goods of $21. The additional cost could be called a "sympathy surcharge" due to the demise of HOB.

Intresting way of working it out and far more use at the time of purchase. My method alas is only of use retrospectfully.
Cost of item divided by the number of scenario's played. I don't include core mods as they are required anyway. If it comes with boards I kind of give the item a bonus play count if the maps are used with another scenario same with counters.

So of the current crop the best value in the last 12 months is Out of the Attic 2 hands down. Obviously as time goes on the items become better value.

Working to this idea IF I play all 6 scenarios then I will have payed about $7.50 per scenario which in the case of OotA2 would be high indeed as currently something like $2 max per scenario. However Decade of War I have only played the one scenario (though it was fantastic fun and worth the cost!!!) but again expect the value to increase as I find time for more scenarios from that pack. Other packs will get little value from but will have cost less that SF2. Only time will tell what I get from the pack but I do hpe he gets the counters right and the proof reading done. Fail on this and I will not but the last ever for sure.

 

[AZslim]

True. If you get even a few hours entertainment out of $40 here, you're beating the heck out of 1) drinking, 2) golf, 3) movies... ASL is about the cheapest entertainment going....

S

Of course it's a different kind of entertainment than say, an eight ball and a couple of hookers.

 

[Binko]

Intresting way of working it out and far more use at the time of purchase. My method alas is only of use retrospectfully.
Cost of item divided by the number of scenario's played.

Custardpie, I like your method too. It presents a scenario value based on real world scenario play decisions. But it's frightening to see how many ASL goodies I've spent big bucks on but never played.

Using the Blood and Jungle pack as an example I've played only 2 scenarios from it. So, as things stand now, my cost per scenario is about $50. Ouch. But I'm about to start another which will drop the cost to $33. I really love this pack so give me another 5 years and I'll probably get the cost down to $5 a scenario or so.

 

[custardpie]

Custardpie, I like your method too. It presents a scenario value based on real world scenario play decisions. But it's frightening to see how many ASL goodies I've spent big bucks on but never played.

Using the Blood and Jungle pack as an example I've played only 2 scenarios from it. So, as things stand now, my cost per scenario is about $50. Ouch. But I'm about to start another which will drop the cost to $33. I really love this pack so give me another 5 years and I'll probably get the cost down to $5 a scenario or so.

My method does have the advantage of putting you under presure to play some of those packs though

 

[rglesINDY]

Well you also get an overlay (no details so it could be a few hexes or half a map, really don't know). Also included is 6 pages of relevent rules fot the MGB's.

Ian

MGB's ? Motor Gun Boats? We already got a great set of rules for motor gun boats with La Franc Tireur's St Nazaire, Operation Chariot. Don't need anymore.

 

[custardpie]

MGB's ? Motor Gun Boats? We already got a great set of rules for motor gun boats with La Franc Tireur's St Nazaire, Operation Chariot. Don't need anymore.

Whilst I also of course thought of those rules I still wonder if they are simular or totally different. Given that these rules were probably written before Op Chariot was released I would say lots of differences.

What happens when MGB's are given the official treatment? would you ignore these? Again MMP MGB rules pre-date LFT's efforts unless LFT worked on theirs based on knowledge of the MMP set ????

Ian

 

[olli]

It says that the MGB rules are an abridged version of the LFT ones guys......

 

[JR Brackin]

MGB's ? Motor Gun Boats? We already got a great set of rules for motor gun boats with La Franc Tireur's St Nazaire, Operation Chariot. Don't need anymore.

However, HOB does not have the rights to them, LFT does. So I am sure that they are using something similar since this was in their basket first. Maybe Steve D can elaborate on this.

 

[Gunner Scott]

Using the Blood and Jungle pack as an example I've played only 2 scenarios from it. So, as things stand now, my cost per scenario is about $50. Ouch. But I'm about to start another which will drop the cost to $33. I really love this pack so give me another 5 years and I'll probably get the cost down to $5 a scenario or so.

Managed to play I think around 13 or 14 scenarios from the Blood and Jungle pack, so I think I got my moneys worth outta of that module. As for HoB SF pack, will eventually buy it, maybe Steve will be at the ASL Open this weekend selling them I do hope.

Spotted another new WBW crap pack on ebay on Special Forces

http://cgi.ebay.com/HARD-LUCK-HEROES-SF-4-ASL-Merrills-Marauders-Chindits-/190516986123?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5bb2810b

I think I would go with HoB's SF pack before buying that guys crappy module, man, he is 10 times worse then ch! when releasing stuff. lol

Scott

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Mark,

This would be a perfect addition to your Desperation Morals website. You could summarize in plot/table form a number of variables such as # of scenarios, # of counter sheets, etc. vs. cost for each product so that the community could have a basis of comparison for exactly these kinds of discussions. Of course if it were done this way it would all be ASL relative. Maybe you could then add in some current other entertainment costs such as a night out at the movies or dinner for two. You also touched on historic cost growth in another thread dealing with BV cost increases over the years. It would be interesting to see what historic cost growth vs size of manufacturer would yield. I'm guessing an outfit like HOB has experienced much higher perceived growth in product cost between releases, but may well be on average with the rest of the industry.

The only reason I'm suggesting you do this is that you potentially might have an awful lot of this information/data readily available given the complete nature of the content you already track.

Just a thought.

Bill

I've always thought that the DM site could be a very good conduit for additional useful data as well - particularly things like prerequisites required to actually play the scenarios included in each product, since it is not always included on the packaging anymore. MMP in particular now just notes that you need "ownership of the ASL system" to play the action packs instead of saying which mapboards or countersets, probably because the ways in which you can obtain the maps and counters have shifted so much, its easier to avoid discussing it altogether. Yet the questions still come up on the various forums - what do I need to actually play this thing, and how do I get it? Would seem to be a natural to include these kinds of things along with the thumbnail descriptions on the DM site.

I did start comparing ASL prices to the amount of time you could get with a third world sex worker, but the currency conversions took too long. Plus, every time I tried, I seemed to rapidly lose interest after about 10-15 minutes and had to smoke a cigarette.

Bill's suggestion has a lot of merit; I think worth more consideration than is being let on by this response.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Spotted another new WBW

http://cgi.ebay.com/HARD-LUCK-HEROES-SF-4-ASL-Merrills-Marauders-Chindits-/190516986123?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5bb2810b

View attachment 32951

"Good luck against those elephants!"

View attachment 32952

 

[alanp]

From what I saw in early play-testing, the rules cover MGBs and their crews--special forces with new counters and abilities--so the rules are extensive and worth the price if this type of action interests you.
Some very fun situations to model in ASL!

 

[rdw5150]

Custardpie, I like your method too. It presents a scenario value based on real world scenario play decisions. But it's frightening to see how many ASL goodies I've spent big bucks on but never played.

Using the Blood and Jungle pack as an example I've played only 2 scenarios from it. So, as things stand now, my cost per scenario is about $50. Ouch. But I'm about to start another which will drop the cost to $33. I really love this pack so give me another 5 years and I'll probably get the cost down to $5 a scenario or so.

I think I have played 8-10 out of that pack with another large one being played Saturday. Considering there are probably half the packs in my collection I have played nothing out of, B&J is a bargain:nuts:

Peace

Roger

 

[MrP]

View attachment 32951

"Good luck against those elephants!"

View attachment 32952

Elephant counters.

FFS. <shakes head>

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Elephant counters.

FFS. <shakes head>

I think mutterings of the same flavour were heard in 1979 or so when the pullkas came out...and it became clear Mr. Hill's elegant little design was becoming somewhat weighted down...

 

['Ol Fezziwig]

$6 a scenario with no other added value than a 1/4 countersheet is extraordinarily expensive. Has there been a similar product with a higher cost per scenario ratio?

I'd be tempted to throw KGP there, were it not for the CGs...

 

['Ol Fezziwig]

MGB's ? Motor Gun Boats? We already got a great set of rules for motor gun boats with La Franc Tireur's St Nazaire, Operation Chariot. Don't need anymore.

I recommend you read the product description...