Speaking of Bridges...

Binchois

Too many words...
Joined
Apr 11, 2016
Messages
1,732
Reaction score
801
Location
Michigan
First name
Lester
Country
llUnited States
My question involves hex E19. A shallow stream with a GLRR Bridge running across it. For extra complexity, there is a road which crosses the stream via a Ford (my apologies for the glare and image quality):

10133

Is there any way for the Stuart to enter F18 (in order to travel down the RR into G18 and beyond) without needing to enter the Light Jungle and risk Bog?

We'll leave aside the question as to whether the AL would even want to traverse a RR Bridge found in the jungle... Otherwise, it seems that traversing the road into E19 would bring the AFV onto the Ford beneath the bridge. OTOH, it could bypass F18/E19, except that from a bypass vertex/hexside you cannot enter the bypassed hex itself. Crossing the Ford, it may be able turn about and maneuver its way - eventually - into bypass of D19/E20, but I doubt that the non-RR vertex (D19-E19-E20) is a legal place from which to continue onto the RR bridge.

Is my understanding of this hex correct? It's been an interesting one to deal with!
 

Vinnie

See Dummies in the index
Joined
Feb 9, 2005
Messages
17,426
Reaction score
3,365
Location
Aberdeen , Scotland
Country
llUnited Kingdom
I think you can go from the Ford onto the railway in F18 without entering any jungle. There is no jungle on the hexside and you can definitely go from the stream into that hex.
You are entering the hex via a road hexside. Nothing states that you have to be using the road in the previous hex to enter using it in this hex.
 

Robin Reeve

The Swiss Moron
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Messages
19,595
Reaction score
5,557
Location
St-Légier
First name
Robin
Country
llSwitzerland
Entering F18 from E18 is entering jungle with a Bog hex.
No road nor railroad hexside is crossed which would allow to avoid it.
Now if the Stuart went into the Ford in E19, turned VCA ccw and moved up into E18, I don't think that it could use to railroad hexside to avoid a Bog check and it would be considered entering jungle...
 

Binchois

Too many words...
Joined
Apr 11, 2016
Messages
1,732
Reaction score
801
Location
Michigan
First name
Lester
Country
llUnited States
Now if the Stuart went into the Ford in E19, turned VCA ccw and moved up into E18, I don't think that it could use to railroad hexside to avoid a Bog check and it would be considered entering jungle...
This is my assumption to. It could climb up from the Ford into hex F18, but it certainly won't be entering the hex from the (rail-)road. Visually, it certainly looks like this should be possible without a Bog check, but I think that, by rule, the move is technically movement into the jungle.
 

mgmasl

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2006
Messages
4,285
Reaction score
337
Location
Cadiz
First name
Miguel
Country
llSpain
i agree with both of you.. to enter the jungle using the rail need to be on the rail bridge over the ford. Rule about wood-road is clear that if entering/exiting from the hex not using road movement need enter the wood portion of the hex first with a bog check.
 

jrv

Forum Guru
Joined
May 25, 2005
Messages
21,998
Reaction score
6,206
Location
Teutoburger Wald
Country
llIceland
If PTO is in effect then the bridge does not exist, even if it is a RR bridge.

JR
 

Binchois

Too many words...
Joined
Apr 11, 2016
Messages
1,732
Reaction score
801
Location
Michigan
First name
Lester
Country
llUnited States
If PTO is in effect then the bridge does not exist, even if it is a RR bridge.

JR
I was kinda thinking that before embarking upon this CG. I considered that perhaps the GLRR ran down to the level of the Ford, but that seemed fairly unprecedented. Besides, there's Errata and Clarifications:

RaM mini-CG Map and Rules:
All roads, bridges and fords exist as they are shown on the map.​
So accepting that the RR Bridge really is present, would you allow Bog-free movement from E19 to F18?
 

RandyT0001

Elder Member
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
Joined
Dec 5, 2016
Messages
1,055
Reaction score
1,272
Location
Memphis, TN
First name
Cary
Country
llUnited States
IMO
MP expended:
2 enter stream (depression) plus the +2 (up the stream bank) hill onto the road + 2 to get on the RR=6
1 to change VCA to F18/F19 = 7MP
2 to enter F18 along the RR = 9MP
Bog check required
You cannot bypass E19. You have to pay all of the costs to go under the bridge and up the depression side and get on the RR.
 

von Marwitz

Forum Guru
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
14,358
Reaction score
10,207
Location
Kraut Corner
Country
llUkraine
If PTO is in effect then the bridge does not exist, even if it is a RR bridge.

JR
While this may be true by the wording of the rules, I'd very much advise to talk over the matter with the opponent before game start if there is no SSR specifically adressing the matter. As it would not make sense that trains would be "fording" PTO streams and one could probably not (historically) assume that any RR bridge is destroyed (and thus non-existent) in PTO.

von Marwitz
 
Top