Something is right with our bloody ships today

[saddletank]

While it is understandable that the British War Graves Commission should prefer these wrecks to be left as undisturbed as possible, it is lamentable that they should refuse permission for academically supported and backed diving expeditions to send divers inside if that dive's purpose is to ascertain more information about the possible ships' loss.

While thousands of RN personnel died aboard warships that exploded during the conflict, one of the few means left available to us to draw more meaningful conclusions as to what caused these explosions lies within the wrecks themselves. In the case of Defence, which I understand is largely intact, entering for the purpose of video recording what remains of her internal structure would be beneficial to the task of finally arriving at the cause of death of those lost - and whose last known resting place the WGC protects.

It is something of an ironic twist that the very grave in which these men lie may yet hold the answer to the question of what went wrong to kill them.

 

[martin worsey]

The ethics of dealing with the wrecks is a sensitive issue; however, the wreck of Indefatigable has been salvaged by commercial operators which is neither sensitive nor beneficial in understanding why the individuals concerned lost their lives

 

[Von der Tann]

It is a bit strange that the German government is not insisting on protecting its own warship wreck sites in any similar fashion, and there are plenty of these around. Although I understand - and in many ways support - the German way of keeping a low profile in military affairs in the light of the events in the world wars, I still find it hard to understand why fallen sailors should pay the price, while their colleagues from the army are held in honour. For example, the wreck of Lützow is said to have been subject to heavy commercial salvaging, mostly in the area of the engines...

 

[saddletank]

I understand what you are saying, Martin, and I support the War Graves Commission's protective stance so that commercial and recreational diving/salving is banned. What happened to Indefatigble pre-protection, is tragic. I would like to see the WGC consent only to appropriate dives for the purpose of academic study in order to learn more about the causes of the ships loss, if for no other reason that we understand what went wrong to end so many lives.

 

[Coypus]

With respect to the documentary mentioned in the above quotation, this would appear to be “Clash of the Dreadnoughts”. Whilst there have been previous incidents of documentaries distorting Mr. Jurren’s findings, as he appears to have collaborated in the making of this one, it could be assumed that it is reasonably reflective of his opinions. The suggestion with respect to the loss of the British ships to explosions is as follows: -

• In 1913, Sir George Callaghan instigated an increase of 50% in the quantities of ammunition carried in the large British warships. This was due to an expectation that low accuracy of gunnery at battle ranges could cause the fleet to run short of ammunition before a decisive outcome had been reached.
• Adequate storage was available for shells within the shell rooms; however, this was not so for the propellant which thus had to be stored outside the magazines.
• Large quantities of cordite was scattered around on the seabed as well as evidence the evidence of it being found in the hoist of Defence. It was suggested that this was evidence of the ships being overloaded with cordite.
• It was also suggested that, in order to increase the rate of fire, cordite was stockpiled in breach of handling regulations and anti flash doors were removed or left open to improve the rate of fire.
• It was considered desirable to investigate the flash protection doors to establish if these had been buckled or destroyed by explosion and thus overwhelmed. Unfortunately it was not possible to find any evidence either way and the expedition was not permitted to enter the wrecks.
• Overall, the conclusion of the documentary was that the ships blew up due to poor handling of cordite insofar as a powder trail was left from turret to magazine.

According to Brown the Third sea Lord (controller) reported as much but Jellicoe ordered him to retract his findings. He was posted to the China station soon after. All the intrigue makes Jutland compelling

 

[Invincible]

Some good nuggets in this thread scattered between some tedious squabbling. Overall an argument is made that British ships were better than represented in the game.