So, what do you think of D&D 4th edition

ChrisM

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I can see the WoW thing - WoW came out before 4E did - so it looks like Wizards is copying them.

It sure seems like they are trying to keep the MMORPG people hooked with the way they have changed the system. Can't imagine a serious WoW addict still playing a table top RPG though.
 

Whizbang1963

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I can see the WoW thing - WoW came out before 4E did - so it looks like Wizards is copying them.

It sure seems like they are trying to keep the MMORPG people hooked with the way they have changed the system. Can't imagine a serious WoW addict still playing a table top RPG though.
some of us do..WOW is one of my break aways from ASL...buyt lately I've developed a passion for Call of Duty, Modern Warfare 2 on XBox 360 live...soooooooo
 

Count_Zero

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some of us do..WOW is one of my break aways from ASL...buyt lately I've developed a passion for Call of Duty, Modern Warfare 2 on XBox 360 live...soooooooo
I've been sucked in by the MW2 Live bug myself. I am trying to VASL my way out of the hole, but it's got a pretty firm grip. I'm waiting until my kids get older to get back into D&D.
 
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Claiming that 4th edition is 'copying' WoW all on the basis that WoW was on the market earlier than 4th edition is simply going to cost you several IQ points :)

4th edition is just a reworking of a game that predates personal computers not to mention WoW.

To put it in perspective, a person might as well claim the ASL starter kits are copying Steel Panthers all because the ASL starter kits weren't around when they marketed Steel Panthers.
 

pward

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Can't imagine a serious WoW addict still playing a table top RPG though.
The pre-game (and sometimes during) chatter is quite frequently WoW related. Of the 7 regulars, I think I'm one of two without a current WoW account.
 

pward

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Claiming that 4th edition is 'copying' WoW all on the basis that WoW was on the market earlier than 4th edition is simply going to cost you several IQ points :)

4th edition is just a reworking of a game that predates personal computers not to mention WoW.

To put it in perspective, a person might as well claim the ASL starter kits are copying Steel Panthers all because the ASL starter kits weren't around when they marketed Steel Panthers.
It's a far cry from 1st and 2nd editions. Spellcasters can do their at-will shot(s) all day long, no limit on preparation or even a spell point system. Multiple attacks at higher levels for certain classes have been replaced by feats that might let you attack more than one target. Gone is the one-attack-per-level against less than 1HD creatures (a minion slayer for sure if it remained). Everyone's defenses increases by half your level, and only the class specific +2 (?) helps one defense over another. Same thing for attacks, even a wizard attacking in melee gets +half level + strength to a melee basic attack. All saving throws are now 10+ to pass, and I've seldom seen modifiers (might change now that we are paragon).

It's a vastly different system than the one I learned back in the 80s. I didn't play 3 or 3.5, so I don't know how close they were to 4, but 4 isn't close to the D&D I remember.
 
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It's true 4th is different.

4th is not at all like 3.5 and 3.5 has nothing in common with 2nd which was sort of like 1st I guess but was a lot different than original or Basic which ever term makes most sense.

In some ways, all that 4th has in common is some of the writers and a name :)

But there is no real connection with WoW. I could just say one is a computer game and thus not the same as a board game and that would be all that was required to be said.

I hated THAC0 with a passion. How the game ever even began with that convoluted concept is amazing.
I rather like that a magic using type no longer needs to be stingy with his few pathetic spells at low levels. Now he can truly be a person with an actually useful skill. I mean a fighter can swing his sword the whole battle, and the magic user only gets to participate 2-3 times?
I like that minions now make it possible for the DM to say 'you see 30 orcs come boiling over the ridge line headed right for your position' and the DM can know that they are all minions though, and all the group needs to do is keep their heads.

There ARE some things about 4th that aren't perfect of course. I'm not going to say the game has no flaws.
 

pward

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Basic (what little I remember of the original boxed set I had those many years ago) was a different set of classes, like Elf and Dwarf, with Humans only being able to have mage/fighter/rogue/cleric. First and second editions were similar to one another, eventually 2nd brought in most of the classes in a similar vein to first, the magic and combat systems were pretty much the same, except instead of tables for each class/level/AC, you just worked from THAC0 which increased at the same rates as the tables for the different classes.

THAC0 is the 0 AC column from the tables of version 1, writ into the rate of change inherent to those tables. For instance fighters/rangers/paladins got better every level, thieves/assassins got a boost every other (I think), then clerics/druids got a boost every third level (I think), and mages/illusionists got a boost every 4. Thieves and Clerics might have been switched, but that's the general lay of the tables to begin with, THAC0 is just another way to say "you need a 20 to hit AC0" at first level.

It's not surprising to me that 4th has a lot of errata, because some of the stuff has created or been published with flawed combos. With the wealth of sources coming along every quarter, eventually a combo that's far overpowered can and will come along. My current pet peeve (after spending about an hour trying to figure it out) is in the new warlord builds in Martial Powers 2. I'm not sure exactly what I can trade for the Archer Warlord class feature, or even if I have to trade it in the first place for one other class feature. The other new class features are specific as to what they replace in a standard Players Handbook build, except for the Archer Warlord feature. There are two new class features for warlords in Martial Powers 1, clearly defined as replacing a PHB commanding presence, but the archer one in MP2 seems to be selectable in place of even the inspiring word feature... but why you would give up the twice per encounter healing, I don't know.
 

doramider7

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I could be wrong, but I don't think they are getting rid of feats. From what a friend of mine said, there will be more feats to choose from.
i do not remember seeing Feats on the 4E character sheet example. Then again I did not look at them closely...

Just looked at them again, and I guess they do have feats, but if you look they do not appear to be like they were in the past.

Peace
 
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