So CMFI is a game but Market Garden is a module
- Thread starter Redwolf
- Start date
NUTTERNAME
Member
Steve continues to talk out of both sides of his mouth. He seems to now be saying that he anticipated the reduced sales of CMFI. Not sure what he thinks that means, but the only thing it would mean to me would be to have a handle on the number of man-hours put in it, and to buy 'solid' product items accordingly. That is, those tin-cases and the manuals, etc. Of course, the man-hours are also being sold under 2.0 and integrated into MG, so really...it comes down to the packaging and media for people that like that stuff.
But from a business standpoint, and a marketing standpoint, having a DL-ONLY sale is nothing but sheer brilliance. As I said before, getting people into the 'Family', that is buying the first game of one of these families, primes the pump for future sales. And also sales-triggering. As an example, I don't buy CMFI. But they come up with a home-run module in the family (I dunno...Monte Casino), then I have to make a purchase decision to jump in and buy the great module and also the base game of the family. It might even need an upgrade. Shelling out that kind of cash-eesh ain't no beer money or movie ticket. Hard to pull the trigger when it is close to a C-note.
So, BF will make product, and demos, and there will be a growing number of 'non-customer' customers.
Thank God for those demos.
But from a business standpoint, and a marketing standpoint, having a DL-ONLY sale is nothing but sheer brilliance. As I said before, getting people into the 'Family', that is buying the first game of one of these families, primes the pump for future sales. And also sales-triggering. As an example, I don't buy CMFI. But they come up with a home-run module in the family (I dunno...Monte Casino), then I have to make a purchase decision to jump in and buy the great module and also the base game of the family. It might even need an upgrade. Shelling out that kind of cash-eesh ain't no beer money or movie ticket. Hard to pull the trigger when it is close to a C-note.
So, BF will make product, and demos, and there will be a growing number of 'non-customer' customers.
Thank God for those demos.
NUTTERNAME
Member
So which is the real truth?
I usually tell people that are obvious liars "You might want to put a little more effort into it if you have decided it is going to be part of your business model".
Or this?
So, at first he claims they won't make the money back they spent. then he claims he was at his 12 month goal in 3 days???
I usually tell people that are obvious liars "You might want to put a little more effort into it if you have decided it is going to be part of your business model".
Elvis
Member
Isn't the first statement addressing people who want the upgrade for free? If so, then it has nothing to do with whether or not they made money on the upgrade. Does it? One is saying if they gave the upgrade for free they would lose money. The other is saying since they didn't they exceeded their internal projections. Which, in my opinion, is a good thing. It will encourage them to continue doing it and not making any of the WW2 obsolete.
Elvis
Member
I'm so busy right now my head is spinning. Maybe when the month is over I'd do it if offered.
NUTTERNAME
Member
No. It's stating some 'truth' supposedly. This is from his first hissy fit about a few people thinking the upgrade should be free, but it is he himself stating that in actuality, even IF people pay, it's a loser. He is basically going into his self-sympathy mode.
In the second defensive mode, he states there are no upgrade numbers. Yes, stating the obvious. But, did Redwolf really state what the upgrade numbers were?
It's just classic reactionary BF poor public-relations. Note how they take their Master's tone? They will feel free to become more rabid. Note the paranoia and baiting and silly personal remarks by the BF gang. Does Steve have kids? What's his point?
It only says that the expectations they set were at a level that didn't make them money (off the 2.0 patch for CMBN).
Personally all I have to say here is that if the situation is that bad they need to do more to widen the customer base and not be locked in with the couple half-grognargs they have (I say half because a lot of people who think of themselves as real grognards don't play the 3D stuff. I like the half ones better). This has been discussed to death, the UI is the first obstacle.
...and that the difference between those expectations and what they actually made is proportional to the difference between 12 months and 3 days. So either he makes this work by having extremely low expectations or he is lying again. Having expectations that low doesn't seem to fit with his mantras of "we won't support you whiners for free", "we know what we're doing" etc.
In any case, Steve's anger is the weather vane of truth and wisdom.
In any case, Steve's anger is the weather vane of truth and wisdom.
NUTTERNAME
Member
At least some people brought up the MG thread.
What I don't get wrt. pricing is the apparent belief in "fairness" as a basis for deciding price. Doesn't 'Moon', or whomever makes the call on such things, know basic economics and understand that there's an optimal income based on the price per AND the amount of sold units? Panther Games also made that kind of 'fairness' argument when they sold Command Ops for ~90$ per unit, and nobody bought it.
That's another thing that I've been saying. CM, as in the current mainline CMx2 WW2 game, should be more expensive if they want to serve their current clients only. Current clients are people who are grognards but not so much that they dislike any 3D game, and have the dedication to build the muscle memory to get along with the interface. I don't mean that in any negative way. The UI is certainly usable once muscle memory kicks in, it's just bloody awful when you are used to better. Such people won't make it past the demo.
That small, tight group will have to fork out the money to sustain development of the game, and that amount of money needed there is more than what we currently pay. The Steel Beasts crowd has already swallowed that pill.
At least BFC had the guts to properly charge for the 2.0 CMBN patch.
NUTTERNAME
Member
Yes, they are market-limited yet they won't acknowledge that it has anything to do with themselves. It's easy to pounce on their limited market constituents and use Redwolf as a whipping boy. They really need to get the basics down and stop over-thinking their business. But the real truth is that most private companies are mismanaged and smaller ones are the worst. All BF needs is some nepotism and they could be the poster-boy for what is wrong with American companies.
But, yes, they should charge for the Upgrade. I even think they disclosed the price and details before releasing it. I really don't get what the fuss is about. It's for sale, that is it. But maybe BF could have marketed it better. I really am seeing a problem with the marketing and don't even want to speculate about the dynamics between Steve and Moon.
But I would have marketed it as follows:
CMBN/CW Upgrade with Bonus Pack1!
Product features the state of the art CMFI Game family improvements as well as additional AFV. Also included is a scenario featuring the AFV.
All they would have to do is transfer the Panzer III and possibly Tiger I and those crappy little tanks (all already available in CMFI) that would allow a small scenario of the US Paratroopers stopping the weak German armored attack around D Day.
Charge 15.00
This way, people are getting state of the art and some 'product' to keep them occupied. They won't feel that they are paying for just 'fixes'.
One thing that I wonder about is that it took so long for them to get the CMBN 2.0 together. It may be possible that they were holding it back to see if they could get the CMFI sales going. It took quite awhile for the CMFI demo to get out the door. They may hold off on releasing MG till they get the demo together.
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FWIW, the whole discussion mirrors sales number that we got from Amazon when CMSF was on sale on Amazon.
All three CMx1 games individually outsold the then-new CMSF.
Yet we've been told that the majority of CMSF sales were hidden because they were on the bfc website. but no cmx1 sales were. sure.
All three CMx1 games individually outsold the then-new CMSF.
Yet we've been told that the majority of CMSF sales were hidden because they were on the bfc website. but no cmx1 sales were. sure.
Tanker
Member
It's regrettable that people are buying into that marketing ploy.
What do you mean? CMBB has massive amounts of equipment and troop types, how exactly is that a "marketing ploy"?! I guess I fell for it hook line and sinker...
Tanker said that it's stupid to say that CMBB had "too much" gear.
He's right, I should have worded that differently. I meant it as in "at least CMBB was a *real* game and gave people lots of stuff to delve into".
He's right, I should have worded that differently. I meant it as in "at least CMBB was a *real* game and gave people lots of stuff to delve into".
Well, I loved CMBB and all of its content, but I have to say it was not a great sales model for BFC--buy one game with everything on the East Front for $50 and you don't need to buy anything else, ever... It was in my view the best deal in wargaming, ever, and we shouldn't expect to see it again. Personally I don't mind buying different games, modules, packs, updates, whatever, but I do wish we could then use them all together (particularly maps). Having four different fragmented East Front games will be a pain.
People would have payed for a new game with an upgraded engine and the same units (and scenario compatibility).
This is how most games in the world operate.
Actually, I don't think that that is how most games in the world operate. AFAIK, most games provide a base game and then sell expansion packs or whatever you call them with new content. BFC could never charge enough for a game to make money if they include every unit from the East Front for the whole war, as in CMBB.
However, I'm not sure what you mean when you refer to an upgraded engine and scenario compatibilty--do you mean they should have updated CMBB with the CMx1 engine? That is not a course that they were interested in pursuing.