So CMFI is a game but Market Garden is a module

Redwolf

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CMFI is a game but Market Garden is a module.

How did that come together? Why release a new game in the middle of the modules for the bigger game?

Maybe they wanted the small scope to develop the code?
 

slm

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I think this is the way things will be in the future.
They have several games "in progress" - one might have one module available, another no modules yet.

Not sure how the development goes, but maybe some stuff is done by different teams (like wasn't CMSF British module largely done by some external team) and they want to keep all people busy.
People creating 3d models might be working on one game/module while coding concentrates on something else that has the gfx stuff mostly ready.
 

Fleischer

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Just another way of milking every drop from the small code changes they have.
 

Elvis

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CMFI is a game but Market Garden is a module.

How did that come together? Why release a new game in the middle of the modules for the bigger game?

Maybe they wanted the small scope to develop the code?
Steve was quoted on this forum recently as saying there are multiple things being worked on at the same time, so I don't feel like I'm talking out of school to say..... there are multiple things being worked on at the same time. :)

Before the birth/growing pains, BFC said that was the plan with CMx2.
 

Elvis

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Just another way of milking every drop from the small code changes they have.
Kinda my point (without the snark) to Nutter in a different thread. There are only so many CM things people will or can buy in a given period of time. I think something big-ish every 6 months is a good pace, from a business point of view.
 

junk2drive

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I suspect that follow ons for any game don't sell as well as the original. If so, it doesn't matter what BFC charges for additional things, the die hards will buy them, others won't.
 

Redwolf

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I just find it confusing.

I'd much rather have a subscription and find all releases ready to run when I open the game.
 

NUTTERNAME

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CMFI is a game but Market Garden is a module.

How did that come together? Why release a new game in the middle of the modules for the bigger game?

Maybe they wanted the small scope to develop the code?
It seems that the CW module has basically the same 'Features' and Development level as CMBN? The off-shoot to a 'whole new family', CMFI, and the casual forecast that it would take '2 months' to 'flip' CMFI-Tech to CMBN (turned into 5 months) is where BF is at. This probably has stalled the projected income stream, especially if the 'new game' CMFI was not that big a seller with the newly revived WWII crowd. But, to get directly to your question; I think CW was a module (and a good subject matter for sales), but MG will be 'much more than a module'.

I would think that MG is more than a sub-set of a 'game family'. In terrain features, bridges and city fighting especially, it will probably end up being a 'super-set'. Of course, they have their eye on the future, and the Eastern Front will certainly need this terrain-coding anyway. Steve has already alluded to that CMBN 2.0 was not just a retrofit of CMFI to the CMBN 'core-code', but that the process had to take into account the new coding of MG and that seems to have been the time-issue that took so long. Basically, the grand-plan hit a snag on it's first trial run.

The early CMSF has been 'legacied' and deemed not worth updating to CMBN 'technology'. It will probably come to a point where CMBN 2.X will not have the chops to keep up with the eastern front 'features'. BF is certainly, at this point, 'twice-shy' and will take a good hard look about sales and marketing and the issue of upgrading.

As far as CMFI 'family' future modules, I would HOPE that BF is smart enough to realize that they need 'better material'. They need to pick their 'battles' better. IF there is another CMFI module, it should appeal to the CW-Mafia customers, USA market and have enough history-charisma to get the EU and others to buy in. Of course, using the developed MG technology in the CMFI module is only smart programming also.

But getting back to MG, will there be another back-lash of customers who might think they are getting jerked? Suppose that you can't use Tiger Tanks in MG unless you have CW? People will feel short-changed because the marketing picture or tin-case shows a Tiger for instance. Will this generate another 'Steve-Diatribe'?

Lessons Learned: New Families 'Intro' should have a minimum of Features. Close out the Family with a 'Module' with BIG features. Upgrades in the Future should only be applied to closed out Families from the last Module of the latest Family.

Oz has spoken.
 
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Elvis

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While you logic makes sense, it is inaccurate.

The 2.0 upgrade took the amount of time it did for a very specific reason that shouldn't occur again going forward. I don't follow the public forums enough to know if Steve has said it publicly, so I'll just give you a hint to send you in the right direction. Ask yourself what changed with CMFI, aside from features, that CMBN wasn't built with.
 

NUTTERNAME

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Steve said this.

As a side note for conspiracy theorists... we did not purposefully set out to make Arnhem require Upgrade 2.0. In fact, our original intention was to make it available for both v1.0 and v2.0 customers. HOWEVER... once we made the changes for Upgrade 2.0 we realized that was simply impossible to do. Arnhem requires specific features introduced into Upgrade 2.0, many of which are not evident to the end user.
Not even sure if you are saying something similar or even something that applies. They said the 2.0 would take two months. I think the CMFI demo took that long. But the CMBN 2.0 Upgrade took 5 months. They had already dropped the MG 1.0 requirement before any of this. Clearly, you can't be specific. But I will. They won't mess around with this Upgrade stuff for quite awhile.

The CMBN 2.0 Upgrade clearly was dependent on MG development. It was not a technology transfer from CMFI like they said it would be.
 

Rule_303

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The 2.0 upgrade took the amount of time it did for a very specific reason that shouldn't occur again going forward. I don't follow the public forums enough to know if Steve has said it publicly, so I'll just give you a hint to send you in the right direction. Ask yourself what changed with CMFI, aside from features, that CMBN wasn't built with.
I never bothered with CMFI and I'm seesawing on MG and 2.0 (which I'll buy together, if I do).

But I have 2 guesses, FWIW:

(1) CMFI features a lot more steep hills and deformed terrain mesh which Steve has always said is a real issue with playability, framerates, etc. Also, the typical CMFI battle seems to be bigger (battalion+). For both these reasons, a lot more LOS comps are needed. Which required the 2.0 intermediate evolution to further streamline the engine under the hood and keep the game playable on most wargamers' PCs.

MG is going to be similarly computationally intense -- not hilly, but dense urban settings with lotsa multistory houses. With battalions moving around in them. So there was no option to keep it in 1.0 mode.

(2) CMFI introduced multiple armies regularly operating together in the same scenario; this was possible in CMBN -- Brits and Yanks, WM + SS, but rare. MG is going to have Brits and Yanks together in a lot more scenarios, together with SS. WM/VG and hopefully (at last!) FJ. And then there's that little feature where different unit patches can appear with paras, etc. (not a big deal to me personally, but fine, ra-rah).

I don't know how taxing all *that* is on the engine, but another part of the 2.0 under the hood improvement seems to be the engine better able to cope with lots of different textures.
 

NUTTERNAME

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I consider MG a Super-Set for other reasons. I believe that many future MG purchasers would wait for MG before buying any 'CMBN 2.0 upgrade'. These people probably bought into CMBN 1.0, kind of felt the limitations, many didn't buy into the CW for reasons such as lack of CW interest in subject matter and cost and other reasons. This bunch of clientele may be from the typical old school CMX1 crowd. They were probably very excited about the CMFI (rightly so) and many bought in. Typically, they would play this over the CMBN 1.0 they also own.

But do they feel the need to purchase the CMBN 2.0 when they might feel that MG might be around the corner anyway? They could reason that it can wait and they save a sawbuck.
 

Elvis

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You're not overthinking the situation but the work was far more simple.....just VERY time consuming.

I'm sorry for being so cryptic. I'll look and see if Steve has already mentioned it.
 

NUTTERNAME

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Looks like Philly is a fan of this site...

#7
Today, 10:34 AM
Phil Culliton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwolf
Based on our own experience and looking at the patch download numbers it seems that CMFI didn't get a lot of sales.

Your experience and numbers are wrong. CMFI did great. I base that on SALES numbers, which are generally more accurate regarding sales than the BFC-trashing BS from your forum. You're making some pretty fun assumptions lately, though, and then spreading them as fact. If you're going to start doing this regularly, we're going to start calling it what it is: trolling.
 

NUTTERNAME

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A funny thing is, just the day before, Steve had this to say...

We have no interest in public spitting matches between forums or organizations.
I guess Philly didn't get the memo? But, when you consider that the 'Marketing' doesn't even use the same terminology such as 'Feature' to describe it's product, how can you expect the supposed lead designer and second-string programmer to be on the same page?

I see Redwolf fired back and did not take either Philly's or that nimrod MikeyD's taunts. Face it, BF has always been secretive and coy about it's numbers (eh, it's their business). But to make such a massive data-leak as to allow the number of DL to not only be outsourced, but also to be published, makes my head spin. RW has them dead to rights. No lying, spinning, personal attacks or banning will cover up the truth on this one. The numbers show the comparative truth!

Maybe Elvis needs to polish off his Marketing resume and get it under BF consideration.
 

Redwolf

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Looks like Philly is a fan of this site...
My suggestion wasn't very well received I guess.

At least Steve has enough backbone to make it clear that CMFI did well compared to expectations and not pull a Phil posting non-statements trying to invoke an impression that it did well in an absolute sense.

The point stands, that thing would probably make more money if it was priced between CMBN and a module's price. I guess there's not much point pointing that out over there.
 

NUTTERNAME

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LOL! Both you and I would buy it! I am getting tired of playing the 'Unity of Command' demo...
 

NUTTERNAME

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Since I see the BS flying over at that thread, let's introduce some facts and see how they can be further spun out both sides of Steve's mouth...


From Sicily to the Alps!
Thursday, 02 August 2012


Yeah! Pre-orders get it first, but let the DL begin!

Limited Tin Case edition sold out
Monday, 06 August 2012


Oh? You made quite or few or none too much?

Combat Mission: Fortress Italy v1.01 patch released!
Tuesday, 23 October 2012


Patch DL numbers, unlike the Hotfix, are out-sourced and show rather low numbers compared to CMBN patch.

Party-Line? Oh, most of the CMFI sales were after the October 23rd date. Yeah. That's right. They were. We mean it. Oh yeah? Don't believe it? OK, then there is something wrong with you!

From Steve's Mouths...

There's more than one place to download a patch and the v1.01 patch came out way sooner (proportional to initial point of sale) than v1.11 did. Which means a larger percentage of CMFI customers didn't have to upgrade because what they bought is still the current version.
So the CMFI sales were greater AFTER the first three months of it being available? That's really your story???? So what's the story on the Tin-Cases? You only had a couple thousand made???
 

Redwolf

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Well the thing is that the whole pricing scheme isn't my idea.

When BFC released CMAK Steve expected that fewer people would be interested because of the theater and because it was an end-of-line game. They then priced CMAK lower than the other CMx1 games although there was a full set of stuff in there (CMBB had overkill amounts of gear, of course).

According to Steve that worked out great unless I misremember.
 
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