Snow and Heavy Snow

[sfcmikej]

I am getting ready to play ASL 123 The Borders Are Burning. SSR 1 states that EC are Snow, with no wind at start. Deep Snow (E3.73) is in effect....

My reading of this is that the EC are -3 for "Snow" and that the Deep Snow rules about movement, cammo etc, inclusive of the snow rules are in effect. It does not automatically indicate falling snow.

Do I have that right?

Also E3.65 seems to indicate Height advantage, shellholes, and walls and hedges, do not negate open ground. That makes shooting at a moving unit with a wall TEM a flat shot? +2 wall -1 NAM, -1 FFMO?

Also the SSR says a vehicle moving across a road hexside does not risk bog (disregard E3.7332). I would assume that means that E3.7332 does not apply to road movement but still applies to movement off road. This ultimately refers back to D8.23 which allows for a secret DR by the non-moving player to make a secret bog DR at teh begining of the vehicles movement.


Mike

 

[jrv]

Correct regarding no falling snow. Falling snow is e3.71. Ground snow & deep snow can exist without falling snow, and vice versa.

E3.65 "For purposes of Mud and Deep Snow (3.62, 3.64, 3.731) only, Open ground includes ..."

Note the "only". For those rules (only), open ground includes all kinds of stuff that would not necessarily be Open Ground for other rules. This does not change Open Ground for those other rules. It changes Open Ground for E3.62, E3.64 and E3.731 only.

JR

 

[sfcmikej]

Thanks JR. I see my misreading of that. Now it makes a bit more sense. I also edited the original post to include a question about the SSR and the exclusion of E3.7332. What say you?

Mike

 

[volgaG68]

Your surmise on your final Bog question is correct, the SSR negates that if traveling on a road only.

 

[sfcmikej]

Thanks Volga. I was pretty sure but it is nice to have confirmation.

Mike

 

[Brian W]

I am getting ready to play ASL 123 The Borders Are Burning. SSR 1 states that EC are Snow, with no wind at start. Deep Snow (E3.73) is in effect....

Note that when Weather is Deep Snow, EC are automatically Snow, so listing Snow EC in the SSR is superfluous. Just caught that on a proofread of an upcoming scenario.

 

[sfcmikej]

You are correct Brian and I just realized that my Title should be Snow and Deep Snow not heavy snow.

Mike

 

[zgrose]

Note that when Weather is Deep Snow, EC are automatically Snow, so listing Snow EC in the SSR is superfluous. Just caught that on a proofread of an upcoming scenario.

For the amount of space consumed, I'd rather the scenario specify the EC regardless. High ROI.

 

[Brian W]

For the amount of space consumed, I'd rather the scenario specify the EC regardless. High ROI.

You'd think that, but then people hammer you on the Forums for spoonfeeding the rules to people. There's a thread around here about that.

 

[zgrose]

You'd think that, but then people hammer you on the Forums for spoonfeeding the rules to people. There's a thread around here about that.

People will hammer you on the forums for using the wrong shade of black, doesn't mean we shouldn't do what's best.

 

[Brian W]

Edit: Let me put it another way. You mention COI. I counter with risk. What is the risk that a player that knows that Weather is Deep Snow will not apply the correct EC DRM/drm? I would say that risk is nil, even if the players do not know that the Deep Snow rules set the EC as Snow.

Now, if the Weather is Ground Snow, EC are Wet per E3.72, I would say that there is a risk that players will apply the wrong EC DRM (Snow EC instead of Wet EC, because that makes much more sense than Wet EC, and that should be changed for simplicity, IMO). However, even then the effect of misplaying the rule is a DRM/drm of -3 verses -2 in the cases where the DRM/drm come into play, so the error itself is unlikely to affect many scenarios. Still, I suppose specifying Wet EC when Weather is Ground Snow would control the risk.

 

[zgrose]

By that rationale, the END printed after the last turn is also unnecessary since the risk of people playing more than the printed number of turns is low? Small touches that make the scenario card more accessible (e.g. color maps thumbnails when available) and minimize rule book diving are great value-adds. Rule references are likewise redundant [EX: All Grain are Plowed Fields (B15.6).] but damn handy, IMO.

 

[Brian W]

By that rationale, the END printed after the last turn is also unnecessary since the risk of people playing more than the printed number of turns is low?

Really, this is non-sense. You sound like not using the SSR to redunently explain a rule is similar to leaving out items that the rules tell us will be on the scenario card. Of course there is no relation between the two acts.

Small touches that make the scenario card more accessible (e.g. color maps thumbnails when available) and minimize rule book diving are great value-adds.

Restating what the ASLRB says is not making the card more accessible, it's cluttering up the card and/or exhibiting a lack of knowledge of the rules by the designers.

Rule references are likewise redundant [EX: All Grain are Plowed Fields (B15.6).] but damn handy, IMO.

Rules references are not redundant, they are references. Why not just quote the entire rule, since the players cannot be trusted to look into their rulebooks to know the rule? We could fill SSRs up with The More You Know style tips--I'm sure players would love that too. How about we just staple an ASLRB to each scenario card, how convenient.

 

[zgrose]

We could fill SSRs up with The More You Know style tips--I'm sure players would love that too. How about we just staple an ASLRB to each scenario card, how convenient.

One could, but that would have low ROI and therefore at odds with the goal.

 

[jrv]

How about we just staple an ASLRB to each scenario card, how convenient.

Wow, that would be great! I wouldn't have to bring the ASLRB with me, just the scenario.

JR

 

[Eagle4ty]

Yikes! What would be the shipping charges on an Action Pack!

 

[CTKnudsen]

I'll revive this thread, rather than start another:

I've always been a bit confused about weather, tbh. I am starting a solo scenario (KGS4) where EC is snow, with Deep snow, Extreme Winter, and No wind at start.

The scenario doesn't say anything about falling snow or overcast/clear etc. Am I to assume that E3. applies, i.e. weather is clear barring SSR that states otherwise?

If I wanted to design a scenario with the possibility of falling snow (or rain), I guess I would have to state weather as Overcast. Does falling snow start in the same manner as rain, assuming that there is no SSR saying that snow is actually falling at scenario start? Or does it start on a wind change DR >= 10, despite the rule stating "re-occurs"?

In other words, how does Falling Snow start if there is no Falling Snow at scenario start by SSR?

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Usually the SSR will say that Overcast is in effect, but Snow, rather than Rain will follow a Wind Change DR high enough.

 

[CTKnudsen]

Usually the SSR will say that Overcast is in effect, but Snow, rather than Rain will follow a Wind Change DR high enough.

Barring the SSR just starting with Falling snow, you mean, in which case E3.71 applies unchanged. Ok, I think I've got it - thanks Klas!