Snap Shot

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Ryan Kent
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What hex do you use to determine the CA of the firing unit and range from the firing unit for a snap Shot?
 

Vinnie

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I'm not so sure. There does not appear yo be low to either vertex of the V3/W4 hexside. I'm not convinced t You have Los yo the entire hexside but am willing to be convinced.
 

hongkongwargamer

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I'm not so sure. There does not appear yo be low to either vertex of the V3/W4 hexside. I'm not convinced t You have Los yo the entire hexside but am willing to be convinced.
Apparently the whole hexside is "elevated" to the based level of where the center dot is . . B10.1 "For aesthetic purposes, many hexes contain colors representing more than one elevation, but units therein are always considered at the elevation level containing the hex center dot."

Unless we say the Snapshot rule needs a LOS to the hexside and not the Units that pass over the hexside ..
 

Vinnie

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Apparently the whole hexside is "elevated" to the based level of where the center dot is . . B10.1 "For aesthetic purposes, many hexes contain colors representing more than one elevation, but units therein are always considered at the elevation level containing the hex center dot."

Unless we say the Snapshot rule needs a LOS to the hexside and not the Units that pass over the hexside ..
hmm, I understand this but I'm not convinced. Is there need for a Q&A here? It just seems counterintuitive.
 

zgrose

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The interpretation of the hexside being at the elevated level is incorrect. That would create a plethora of plateau’ed shots and probably render Crest Lines moot.
 

jrv

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The interpretation of the hexside being at the elevated level is incorrect. That would create a plethora of plateau’ed shots and probably render Crest Lines moot.
I'm not sure what you see as a problem. In current ASL a unit in bypass of W4 is at the upper level even on hexsides where the artwork makes it seem like the unit should be at the lower level, e.g. hexside w3/w4. This has not created any problems as far as I know except that it is confusing to players that are not familiar with the rule. The artwork does not reflect what the rule says, but artwork is only indicative and the rule wins.

JR
 

asloser

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In the OP image, LOS from V4 to W3 by that interpretation.
Why would this be? Discussion of bypass mechanics does not change any other LOS rule.

Edit: A4.34 last sentence makes an exception for bypass.
 
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zgrose

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Why would this be? Discussion of bypass mechanics does not change any other LOS rule.
Apparently the whole hexside is "elevated" to the based level of where the center dot is . .
hmm, I understand this but I'm not convinced. Is there need for a Q&A here? It just seems counterintuitive.
I'm not worried about bypass. Considering the V3/W4 hexside to be at Level 1 is incorrect. Maybe I'm missing the conclusions people are reaching but that seems to be what people are trying to say?
 

jrv

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In the OP image, LOS from V4 to W3 (edit) would be blocked by that interpretation.
No, for a couple of reasons. First a crest line is not inherent, so even if the crest line were drawn to the hex edge (but not into the next hex) LOS would be clear.

However what you are concerned about is that the fact that the unit in bypass of W3/W4 is at the upper level means that even if not drawn that way crest lines should be viewed as being drawn to the hex edge and LOS from V4 to a hex like X2 that is off straight down the hexspine is blocked even if the artwork does not show it. For that purpose the artwork is the rule, and LOS is not blocked even if off the hexspine as long as the LOS does not cross level one terrain in W4. That is what confuses people who are not familiar with the rule on bypass: a unit in bypass has LOS traced to it at a place where it would seem to be "floating on air." And if ASL mapped one-to-one to reality it would be. But the points to which LOS is traced are just convenient points. It should not be taken literally that a unit is cartographically at the vertex just because the LOS is traced there for game purposes any more than a unit is exactly at the hex center when LOS is traced there. Tracing LOS to a point is a game artifact, not an indication of reality, and can't be used to determine other characteristics of a unit, e.g. its height.

JR
 

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I'm not worried about bypass. Considering the V3/W4 hexside to be at Level 1 is incorrect. Maybe I'm missing the conclusions people are reaching but that seems to be what people are trying to say?
If you are bypassing the woods in W4 then this hexside is considered to be on level 1. If you draw a LOS through the hexside from V4 to W3 it is at level 0. These are two different situations in determining if there is a LOS or not.
 

jrv

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I'm not worried about bypass. Considering the V3/W4 hexside to be at Level 1 is incorrect. Maybe I'm missing the conclusions people are reaching but that seems to be what people are trying to say?
Per A4.34, "If a unit is using Bypass (including VBM) along a Crest Line, and the obstacle it is Bypassing is on the higher level of that Crest Line, then the unit is also at that higher level (since a Crest Line itself cannot be Bypassed; 4.3)." A unit bypassing on the W3/W4 hexside is at level one because W3 can't be bypassed so it must be bypassing the woods obstacle in W4. For a unit bypassing on the V3/W4 hexside the level depends on the obstacle being bypassed. If the unit is bypassing on v3/w4 via the woods in W4 it is at level one. If it is bypassing the building in V3 it is at level zero. The player must make clear which obstacle is being bypassed for this reason among others (the hex being bypassed can also determine range as well as which hex the unit will end up in if pinned or broken).

This means that when bypassing the v3/w4 hexside the unit might look like it is "floating on air." You have to deal with it, because A4.34 is very clear. What you seem to see on the map is not what the rules say.

JR
 

zgrose

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I'm not concerned about bypass. A unit bypassing the Woods in W4 moving from W3 to V4 is in LOS of the shooter in U6 Level 1.
This thread relates to Snap Shot. The V3/W4 hexside is at Level 0 at therefore out of LOS for the Snap Shot from the shooter in U6 Level 1. changed my mind below.
 
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jrv

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I'm not concerned about bypass. A unit bypassing the Woods in W4 moving from W3 to V4 is in LOS of the shooter in U6 Level 1.
This thread relates to Snap Shot. The V3/W4 hexside is at Level 0 at therefore out of LOS for the Snap Shot from the shooter in U6 Level 1.
Only if the unit is not considered at level one on the hexside in W4. The bypass rules indicate that it might be. The snap shot rules are not at all clear on this and many other matters. I would suggest it is a matter suitable for a q&a.

JR
 
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