Snap shot (vs Skulking)

[klasmalmstrom]

...cleans the rule up...

Agree - the Snap Shot rule has always been a bit of a mess, IMO.

 

[Rock SgtDan]

I found this rather lengthy response by Perry to snap shots in Klaus's compilation. It gives me pause to think that the OP is correct to think that shot is allowed.

A8.15 Using ABTF map for the following examples.

So... totally useless for the 90% who don't own ABTF.

 

[Mister T]

And FT attacks too.

Fortunately (and reasonably) FT can't do snap shots.

 

[Rock SgtDan]

8.15 SNAP SHOT: Any unit wishing to make a Small-Arms/MG Defensive First Fire attack may claim a Snap Shot if it can trace a LOS to an entire hexside (even if that hexside is part of a Blind hex) that was crossed by the moving unit in entering a on-board hex (even if the center dot of that hex is out of the firer's LOS) [EXC: A Snap Shot cannot be taken at a unit while entering the firer's hex].

The FFNAM/FFMO DRM cannot apply (even if the entire length of the hexside is along Open Ground), nor does the TEM of most other terrain in the target hex (C.5C; however a wall/hedge/SMOKE/rubble hexside/spine of a hex being entered/ exited can modify a Snap Shot if crossed by the LOF on the way to the target hexside).

Snap Shots are resolved as Area Fire. If affected by a Snap Shot, the moving unit is considered in the Location entered thereafter. Neither a MG that must change its CA (9.21), nor an ordnance weapon, nor a weapon using IFE/Canister can make a Snap Shot (see also B9.2 and C.5). A firer can make only one Snap Shot at a unit crossing a hexside, even if that unit is expending > one MF to enter the hex, but may do so after other (even non-Snap-Shot) attacks.
>

The wording of the rule is sub par. Someone should turn it into a flow chart to point out the inconsistancies.
FREX: "most other" wrt the target hex; then a single exception - which includes a rule about a non-target hex.

Seems to want to say:
The FFNAM/FFMO DRM DOES NOT apply (even if the entire length of the hexside is along Open Ground) . <= full stop

Nor does the TEM of ANY OTHER terrain in the target hex
[EXC (C.5C) a wall/hedge/SMOKE/rubble hexside/spine of THE TARGET HEX can modify a Snap Shot if crossed by the LOF on the way to the target hexside ].

LIKEWISE, a wall/hedge/SMOKE/rubble hexside/spine of THE HEX BEING exited can modify a Snap Shot if crossed by the LOF on the way to the target hexside.

The rule should also specify that the target hex is the hex being moved into - yes that is standard, but given that this action takes into account specified things in both the exited and entered hex, in a unique way, it pays to eliminate that source of confusion:

... crossed by the moving unit in entering the target hex (even if the center dot of that hex is out of the firer's LOS),
which hex must be 1) on-board and 2) not the firer's hex.

Pedantic: "on-board" is not a defined term. Must presume it is contrary to "off-board." except... COWTRA.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

So... totally useless for the 90% who don't own ABTF.

Hopefully, some of those 90% can use VASL and/or extract the map file from VASL.

 

[buser333]

I posed the question to Perry. I will inform you of the answer when it comes.

Have you received an answer from Perry yet? That is unlike him not to respond by now?

 

[WuWei]

Have you received an answer from Perry yet? That is unlike him not to respond by now?

No reply so far...

 

[Robin Reeve]

No reply so far...

This could be a case when the question is more complex than supposed and when, perhaps, the rule should be reworded.
Klas already has expressed that the Snap Shot rule was something of a mess.
Perhaps are the MMP team thinking of not giving a quick answer, so as to rethink the Snap Shot rule?
I am slightly speculative, but not in an unreasonable way, I believe.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

This could be a case when the question is more complex than supposed and when, perhaps, the rule should be reworded.
Klas already has expressed that the Snap Shot rule was something of a mess.
Perhaps are the MMP team thinking of not giving a quick answer, so as to rethink the Snap Shot rule?
I am slightly speculative, but not in an unreasonable way, I believe.

You are correct that the more "complex" a question is, the longer the response time usually.

 

[Will Fleming]

Gonna take longer than 'fixing' and then 'unfixing' the -1 bridge TEM I would think.

 

[Brian W]

Well, it means over turning old q&a, and changing the ASLRB, too. Another 'unfix'.

 

[dur]

Any word from Perry on this one yet?

 

[WuWei]

I asked again a few weeks ago and didn't get an answer, either. Since it usually only takes a few days, I don't expect I'll get an answer ever. Perhaps I ended up on the spam list...?

 

[Robin Reeve]

Or your question was a very good one.
Or we are in Summer and Perry could have some holiday time away from work.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

I asked again a few weeks ago and didn't get an answer, either. Since it usually only takes a few days, I don't expect I'll get an answer ever. Perhaps I ended up on the spam list...?

"it usually only takes a few days" - this greatly depends on the question asked.

 

[jrv]

"it usually only takes a few days" - this greatly depends on the question asked.

I have studied the snap shot rules and have even thought about asking some questions about them. When the snap shot rules are simple (e.g. target moving perpendicular to the line of fire), they are (usually) relatively simple. When they are hard (target moving toward/away, changing level, blind hexes, etc.), they don't seem as clear nor as well-thought-out. The intention seems to have been to give the effects of what I call the simple case, but the way the rule was set it led to the possibilities in the harder cases. It isn't too surprising that this question is difficult to answer.

JR

 

[Mister T]

I asked again a few weeks ago and didn't get an answer, either. Since it usually only takes a few days, I don't expect I'll get an answer ever. Perhaps I ended up on the spam list...?

Anyway some questions are never answered, so don't hold your breath.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

...When they are hard (target moving toward/away, changing level, blind hexes, etc.), they don't seem as clear nor as well-thought-out. The intention seems to have been to give the effects of what I call the simple case, but the way the rule was set it led to the possibilities in the harder cases...

Agree.

 

[Robin Reeve]

some questions are never answered

That makes ASL a religion of sorts.

 

[WuWei]

"it usually only takes a few days" - this greatly depends on the question asked.

It might be that my previous questions all were easy ones.