Slopes!

[Will Fleming]

I am not a big fan of slopes and barbed wire fences. My brain doesn't pick them up off the map and more often than not, both me and my opponent seem to forget about them during play.

Maybe a simplified version of the rules and different artwork? They seem to be very easily covered by counters or hard to see between two stack of counters (blind hexsides perhaps?). I have no idea what artwork would be better, so I best just hope for simplified rules.

 

[AZslim]

The complexity seems to be the problem with almost everyone I have spoken with. They are very easily made less verbose. The concept is easy to understand and easy to implement.

I think they add a completely new dimension to the game. Now all hills don't need to be terraced plateau's...think of the board 39 forest covered hills and all the blocked LOS"s that make it a mostly unused board...with the addition of slopes you suddenly can see over the tops of some of those tree covered hills as now if you're a full level above the blocking tree hex and on a slope you're 1.5 above and can see over...AND if you don't want that for a particular scenario, an SSR simply states :Slopes are NA.

There are undulations in the earth, it is very rarely a flat plain like the salt flats...even the Russian Steppes have small rises and dips, slopes depict these in ASL terms. You get HUGE bang for your buck.

Steve Swann, you know I love you, but...I think you are not giving them a fair shake, and would like them if you tried them....is it the complexity of the writing for those rules that turns you off, or just "I don't like them"?

Interesting to see the hard line stances taken one way or the other.

I agree here. I think the concept is good, but I havn't been able to wrap my poor, dull, 70's muddled brain around the visualization. I bet when I have them down pat, I'll like them better. That did happen with bocage. I'm hoping after my King of the Hill CG I will know them well enough to like them.

 

[Tuomo]

Seems they are just all over the HASL maps that have them. Kinda look like hairy bugs running across the ASL game.

EXACTLY. It's not the slope RULES that are killing me (although they ARE messier than they should be), but how they're scattered all over the maps. My eye can't make sense of them, therefore I won't play them**. Would have been a much better idea to use fewer of them and have them flow with the Base Level terrain better than they do.

** - same for board 25. Just too much going on.

 

[R.S. Barker]

"If the rules could have been simplified to just a paragraph or two..."

From the mouth of babies....

 

[wrongway149]

Maybe a simplified version of the rules and different artwork? They seem to be very easily covered by counters or hard to see between two stack of counters (blind hexsides perhaps?).

This is a real problem when actually trying to be open -minded and play with slopes.

Hard to know at a glance what's what-- Do you move each and every stack to see if there's slope under there?

 

[peterk1]

Screw slopes. Too complicated. What we need is more levels!

 

[Robin Reeve]

I hate slopes!:freak:
Couldn´t one create slope rules that only affect LOS over a same level crestline without incurring any supplemental MP/MF cost or TEM?
The original creator of those rules, Philippe Leonard, made things much too complicated and has left ASL quite a long time ago. I don´t feel any urge to follow his concept.
Slopes are to the Hill rules what the IIFT is to the IFT : an addition that some like and that some dislike - and the IIFT at least is an official option.
I really do hope slope never jump out of HASL modules to pollute the RB.:angry:

 

[Trezza]

Fort, I am putting in for a private lesson. I am weak on slope rules/tactics.
Starting up the Operation Merkur CG also and it contains many a slope on that map.

 

[c chapman]

I always liked slopes and with the huge hill masses in KGP they seemed essential. I don't think they'd be as useful on the geo bds since they seem designed to be either plateau like (bd 11) or steep hill flavor (2,15,39). Still perhaps having some hill overlays that include slopes or slope overlays esp for lvl 0 would be useful.
Now if only we had slope rulz in Chap F instead of the insanity that is hillocks!

Chris

 

[AZslim]

Fort, I am putting in for a private lesson. I am weak on slope rules/tactics.
Starting up the Operation Merkur CG also and it contains many a slope on that map.

I would like to join the class myself. I promise not sit in back and shoot spitwads.

 

[2 Bit Bill]

For some reason I find them easy to understand, so I'm for 'em. Now Bocage we can do without. Dump Bocage and put in Slopes. Bocage is in one lousy corner of France, but Slopes are everywhere. :shy:

I agree 99.6177% :laugh:

In 94, Kurt Martin & I did an extensive recon on the KGP map areas while the Tourney was happening.

I was amazed at how steep the hills actually were and how the slope rules accurately portrayed the terrain. We spot checked many a LOS and they were 100% correct.

We also discovered a hidden VP Location on the Stumont map. :clown:

 

[2 Bit Bill]

Slopes are to the Hill rules what the IIFT is to the IFT : an addition that some like and that some dislike - and the IIFT at least is an official option.
I really do hope slope never jump out of HASL modules to pollute the RB.:angry:

I can dig!

 

[Fort]

Here are some examples of what slopes could do for an otherwise very congested, short LOS board.

U5 now has LOS to Y3, Z2, X1, etc.

V5 now has LOS to Y3, Z2, X1, T1, T0, etc.

V1 now has LOS to X0 with no Grain Hindrance.

Y1 now has LOS to T1 with no Grain Hindrance...but, still does not have LOS
to Q2.

Z2 now has LOS to V0, the orchard in Y2 does not block LOS to lower level
locations as without the slope. Continuous slope LOS to X1 is not changed.

My Artistic efforts are not up to par, and the colors I chose for Slopes are not necessarily the best to allow them to stand out...maybe changing the color of the entire hexside (itself) of a slope hexside would make it stand out more and reduce counter shuffle.

Like this?

 

[Jazz]

I think that slopes are needed to bring ASL hills into the real world. Seems when I look at the elevation and LOS characteristics of real terrain and picture what ASL terrain would best model it (we all do that don't we?), I'm calling out slopes more than anything else.

If a slow sullen bowhunk such as myself can figure them out, it shouldn't be all THAT hard for the rest of you jokers to cypher it out....

 

[sswann]

Here are some examples of what slopes could do for an otherwise very congested, short LOS board.

U5 can now has LOS to Y3, Z2, X1, etc.

V5 can now has LOS to Y3, Z2, X1, T1, T0, etc.

V1 now has LOS to X0 with no Grain Hindrance.

Y1 now has LOS to T1 with no Grain Hindrance...but, still does not have LOS
to Q2.

Z2 now has LOS to V0, the orchard in Y2 does not block LOS to lower level
locations as without the slope. Continuous slope LOS to X1 is not changed.

My Artistic efforts are not up to par, and the colors I chose for Slopes are not necessarily the best to allow them to stand out...maybe changing the color of the entire hexside (itself) of a slope hexside would make it stand out more and reduce counter shuffle.

Like this?

Leave out the Slopes and just enact the Continuous Slope (B.5) and Alpine Hill (B10.211) rules by SSR.

 

[Fort]

Leave out the Slopes and just enact the Continuous Slope (B.5) and Alpine Hill (B10.211) rules by SSR.

Those rules do not yield the same results at all. Continuous slope is always in the game, and Alpine hills will not give you any of the results I illustrated. In fact with alpine hills there is no LOS from W4 to Y3, or U2 to W3 for example. Continuous slope is for situations like Z2 to X1/Y1/Z0/AA1/BB1, there is an LOS through the orchard (with Hindrances) because of the continuous slope rule.
Neither of these rules simulate a gently rolling countryside with grain growing on something other than a billiards table, nor do they allow LOS over level 1 obstacles only one level lower than the observer.

 

[Tuomo]

Y1 now has LOS to T1 with no Grain Hindrance...

See? There! Right THERE. THAT makes no sense to me. That LOS cuts through V1, which is higher than level 0, but V1 does not hinder the LOS you're talking about.

The whole "V1 is upslope to W1 but not necessarily upslope to anything else" is totally and completely mystifying to me.

Unless you made a mistake, Gary, then I'll just step back and thank you for pointing out a case that exemplifies just what's wrong with Slopes, at least in my mind. They make no sense.

 

[sdennis]

See? There! Right THERE. THAT makes no sense to me. That LOS cuts through V1, which is higher than level 0, but V1 does not hinder the LOS you're talking about.

The whole "V1 is upslope to W1 but not necessarily upslope to anything else" is totally and completely mystifying to me.

Unless you made a mistake, Gary, then I'll just step back and thank you for pointing out a case that exemplifies just what's wrong with Slopes, at least in my mind. They make no sense.

I'm with Jazz, it's not that hard Tom, just friggin close your eyes to slopes not in the source or target hex (looking for those dells) and you're fine. Maybe not realistic that V1 doesn't affect Fort's Y1->T1 LOS but it's not complicated to play as a game mechanic...

 

[footsteps]

and the IIFT at least is an official option.

Since slopes appear in official HASLs, they qualify as an official option too.

Alan

 

[Rindis]

I like slopes. I'd want to keep them somewhat rare on geo-boards, but they do a lot for getting hilly terrain to act right. They occasionally caused me to go cross-eyed while playing through the PB scenarios, but no worse than the regular LOS rules.