Slaughter at Ponri

[Honza]

I would not get too wrapped up in this version of Ponyri since it will be a long time before it see's the light of day. IE you have Red Factories, Dinant, manila and alot of other ASL stuff coming out before this module does.

You are forever the optimist.....

 

[Gunner Scott]

MMP put RF up for pre order three years ago, so do the calculations lol.

You are forever the optimist.....

 

[wrongway149]

(

The battlefield is as accurate as I think it can be based on aerial photos. It is a combination of rural and urban, large to give players lots of room maneuver (largest HASL map to date), there are few 'dead zones' (unused places) on the map, it has a uniquely 'Ukrainian' look, and it's final execution was done by none other than Charlie K.

I call the map 'Red Barricades meets Riley's Road" . I've found this has led to a much wider variety of tactical combinations employed during play. I am not going to spoil it by discussing the specifics here-- but I think you guys will be challenged by it and will enjoy the glory of your 'Ah-Ha!!' moments when the light bulb goes on. It will continue your wondrous journey of ASL.

 

[g_young]

AFAIK, close-recon aircraft (such as the Fieseler Storch, comparable in some ways to a Piper Cub) had a radio-connection to the Flivo, which was located very close to the front and working together - quasi embedded - with Heer units. In parallel, the observers in the aircraft would jut down notes and take pictures above target. After the first radio transmission, the notes would be dropped out of the aircraft close to the location where the Flivo was stationed. The Flivo would then pinpoint the described target location on previously made aerial photographs and reconfirm with the just landed aerial-observers to eliminate possible misunderstandings. Then, based on this information, either aerial strikes or artillery strikes would be effected.

It is to be noted, that the Fieseler Storch did not require any sort of airfield to operate. Any patch of level ground would do. With a heads-on wind, it needed merely 50 meters (!) of ground to take off and 20 meters to land. Its speed was very slow, too. As such, it was able to do very short range recon and to operate in very close vincinity of the Flivo detachment.

The Flivo was not necessarily fixed in his position. There were standard German halftracks (of the SPW 250 variant I think) which were equipped with the necessary radio equipment. As such, the Flivo was able to keep up with the front and movement of friendly troops (especially panzer spearheads).

I think, that the Flivo did not have a direct radio connection to bomber, fighter, or ground-support aircraft.
Nevertheless, the "reaction time" and relative precision of ground-support attacks (especially Stuka) was very short and good compared to everything else that was around until late during the war.

von Marwitz

Thanks for the post - very interesting. I'd been aware that one of the major problems with German inf div's through the conflict was a lack of sufficient organic artillery in its TOE.

Air support was one way of making up for this. The mechanics of which I had no idea of till I read your post!

 

[fzmann]

AFAIK, close-recon aircraft (such as the Fieseler Storch, comparable in some ways to a Piper Cub) had a radio-connection to the Flivo, which was located very close to the front and working together - quasi embedded - with Heer units. In parallel, the observers in the aircraft would jut down notes and take pictures above target. After the first radio transmission, the notes would be dropped out of the aircraft close to the location where the Flivo was stationed. The Flivo would then pinpoint the described target location on previously made aerial photographs and reconfirm with the just landed aerial-observers to eliminate possible misunderstandings. Then, based on this information, either aerial strikes or artillery strikes would be effected.

It is to be noted, that the Fieseler Storch did not require any sort of airfield to operate. Any patch of level ground would do. With a heads-on wind, it needed merely 50 meters (!) of ground to take off and 20 meters to land. Its speed was very slow, too. As such, it was able to do very short range recon and to operate in very close vincinity of the Flivo detachment.

The Flivo was not necessarily fixed in his position. There were standard German halftracks (of the SPW 250 variant I think) which were equipped with the necessary radio equipment. As such, the Flivo was able to keep up with the front and movement of friendly troops (especially panzer spearheads).

I think, that the Flivo did not have a direct radio connection to bomber, fighter, or ground-support aircraft.
Nevertheless, the "reaction time" and relative precision of ground-support attacks (especially Stuka) was very short and good compared to everything else that was around until late during the war.

von Marwitz

Regarding the Fieseler Storch aircraft and minimum take off requirements, refer to the Grand Sasso raid (the rescue of Mussolini); the Storch that flew him off the mountain had very little runway if one can call a rudimentary pasture a runway, to von Marwitz' point.

 

[wrongway149]

Thanks for the post - very interesting. I'd been aware that one of the major problems with German inf div's through the conflict was a lack of sufficient organic artillery in its TOE.

Air support was one way of making up for this. The mechanics of which I had no idea of till I read your post!

A bigger problem for the ID 292 was that most of their organic AT assets were still the 37mm 'Door-knockers'!!! (Hence the extra Stug BNs attached)

Tough to have in scenarios, as most players would wind up just using the crews as additional infantry.

 

[DWPetros]

Every HASL deserves its own unique bit of chrome - Ponyri is no exception. That said, choosing what kind of chrome is the question. Too much of it, and the game can easily bog. Too little, and there's a risk of not having enough uniqueness to qualify it for being a HASL. In Ponyri, the original intent was to minimize, but not eliminate altogether Rules Chrome (lots of new terrain rules, etc..) so that the focus would be upon large scale, combined arms tactics (esp. in the CG). But still, there will be a few new things particular to Ponyri, to be provided by the final CG design team.

 

[Bob Walters]

Every HASL deserves its own unique bit of chrome - Ponyri is no exception. That said, choosing what kind of chrome is the question. Too much of it, and the game can easily bog. Too little, and there's a risk of not having enough uniqueness to qualify it for being a HASL. In Ponyri, the original intent was to minimize, but not eliminate altogether Rules Chrome (lots of new terrain rules, etc..) so that the focus would be upon large scale, combined arms tactics (esp. in the CG). But still, there will be a few new things particular to Ponyri, to be provided by the final CG design team.

Given that the Luftwaffe flew well over a thousand sorties a day at Ponyri I would think the Luftwaffe flying over the battlefield was definitely part of the "unique bit of chrome" that was present at Ponyri.

 

[Robin Reeve]

What could refrain me from purchasing that HASL is the huge size of the map.
Unless there are scenarios taking only part of it.

 

[xenovin]

There are smaller scenarios as I play tested one of them. The entire map is the CG

 

[Jazz]

What could refrain me from purchasing that HASL is the huge size of the map.
Unless there are scenarios taking only part of it.

I have never had a table that fits the OtO HASL map, but I have played and enjoyed all the stand-alone scenarios.

 

[wrongway149]

What could refrain me from purchasing that HASL is the huge size of the map.
Unless there are scenarios taking only part of it.

No single scenario uses the entire map .

 

[wrongway149]

Given that the Luftwaffe flew well over a thousand sorties a day at Ponyri I would think the Luftwaffe flying over the battlefield was definitely part of the "unique bit of chrome" that was present at Ponyri.

'Flying over' and 'attacking ground targets close to the front line' are two different things.

Especially with all of those arty rounds in the air.

 

[wrongway149]

Every HASL deserves its own unique bit of chrome - Ponyri is no exception. That said, choosing what kind of chrome is the question. Too much of it, and the game can easily bog. Too little, and there's a risk of not having enough uniqueness to qualify it for being a HASL. In Ponyri, the original intent was to minimize, but not eliminate altogether Rules Chrome (lots of new terrain rules, etc..) so that the focus would be upon large scale, combined arms tactics (esp. in the CG). But still, there will be a few new things particular to Ponyri, to be provided by the final CG design team.

CHROME list for Ponyri:

Light grain (1/2 Hindrance)
Flame mines (details still being worked out)
German sappers infantry
Russian tank-hunters teams (may be by SSR/CG purchase only)
Armored train OBA (details still being worked out)

What else am I missing, Don?

 

[Gunner Scott]

Well, you have three or four years to think about adding or modifying stuff lol

CHROME list for Ponyri:

Light grain (1/2 Hindrance)
Flame mines (details still being worked out)
German sappers infantry
Russian tank-hunters teams (may be by SSR/CG purchase only)
Armored train OBA (details still being worked out)

What else am I missing, Don?

 

[DWPetros]

CHROME list for Ponyri:

Light grain (1/2 Hindrance)
Flame mines (details still being worked out)
German sappers infantry
Russian tank-hunters teams (may be by SSR/CG purchase only)
Armored train OBA (details still being worked out)

What else am I missing, Don?

Not entirely sure as I'm not on the cutting edge of this design anymore, but I think that's pretty much it, other than Pakfront rules which permit increased chances on the To Hit tables.

 

[Brad M-V]

I want this already!

 

[Mister T]

No single scenario uses the entire map .

I still hope that there is a very large scenario giving a taste of what a CG would look like.

 

[g_young]

Every HASL deserves its own unique bit of chrome - Ponyri is no exception. That said, choosing what kind of chrome is the question. Too much of it, and the game can easily bog. Too little, and there's a risk of not having enough uniqueness to qualify it for being a HASL. In Ponyri, the original intent was to minimize, but not eliminate altogether Rules Chrome (lots of new terrain rules, etc..) so that the focus would be upon large scale, combined arms tactics (esp. in the CG). But still, there will be a few new things particular to Ponyri, to be provided by the final CG design team.

Thanks for that, seems reasonable. Game the system rather than have the system game you.

 

[wrongway149]

I still hope that there is a very large scenario giving a taste of what a CG would look like.

Maybe something a little bit outside the current paradigm.