Should Penn State get the 'death penalty' for the Sandusky scandal?

Fort

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More than that, it says that collegiate sports are more important than justice for the rape of children. As a non-football fan, I'm horrified that this is even a question. I would disband the program, dynamite the stadium and salt the field with radioactive cobalt, just as a warning to other schools not to try to cover up crimes of this magnitude. That students can no longer play a game is so low on the scale of appropriate punishments for child rape that I can't believe it is even being discussed.
Had Sandusky been the head of the chemistry department would you advocate the destruction of the chemistry building and a ban on the study of chemistry throughout the land?
I am no supporter of PSU and I don't like the direction that college sports have taken over the years, but would rather target the perpetrator, enablers and accomplices...
 

aiabx

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Had Sandusky been the head of the chemistry department would you advocate the destruction of the chemistry building and a ban on the study of chemistry throughout the land?
I am no supporter of PSU and I don't like the direction that college sports have taken over the years, but would rather target the perpetrator, enablers and accomplices...
Well, I guess it depends on what you think the purpose of a university is.
If it's there to field a football team, then it's a fair comparison. If it's there for teaching and research, then chemistry would be part of the core purpose of the university, and football would not.

I guess if there was ever a chemistry department run by Nobel Laureates, famous for season after season of useless but well-publicized discoveries, that became so prestigious that no one would criticize it until it grew fat and corrupt and scandal ridden, where students were passed even though they were incapable of anything other than titrating hydrochloric acid (on the special hydrochloric acid titration team), then yeah, shut it down. If it isn't teaching and isn't doing useful research, what good is it?
 

Fort

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Well, I guess it depends on what you think the purpose of a university is.
If it's there to field a football team, then it's a fair comparison. If it's there for teaching and research, then chemistry would be part of the core purpose of the university, and football would not.

I guess if there was ever a chemistry department run by Nobel Laureates, famous for season after season of useless but well-publicized discoveries, that became so prestigious that no one would criticize it until it grew fat and corrupt and scandal ridden, where students were passed even though they were incapable of anything other than titrating hydrochloric acid (on the special hydrochloric acid titration team), then yeah, shut it down. If it isn't teaching and isn't doing useful research, what good is it?
The purpose and administration of a university is not my concern here. The purpose and administration of justice is.
 

aiabx

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The purpose and administration of a university is not my concern here. The purpose and administration of justice is.
Then I would say from my own perspective* that depriving students of the right to play a game is acceptable collateral damage (as Scott puts it) in the pursuit of justice while depriving students of an education is not.
You may consider the "football scholarships mean education" can of worms to be officially open.

(* speaking as someone who has never given a rat's a** about college football)
 

Marty Ward

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Then I would say from my own perspective* that depriving students of the right to play a game is acceptable collateral damage (as Scott puts it) in the pursuit of justice while depriving students of an education is not.
You may consider the "football scholarships mean education" can of worms to be officially open.

(* speaking as someone who has never given a rat's a** about college football)
~87% of the Penn State players graduate is 4 years or less, far above the general student population and among the highest in collecge sports.

"The GSR includes incoming transfers and students who enrolled in school in the spring. The players have to have received athletic aid and graduated. Those who left programs, but were academically eligible to compete, are not included.

1. 97 percent: Notre Dame

2. 94: Northwestern

3. 93: Boston College, Duke and Rice

6. 91: U.S. Naval Academy

7. 89: Rutgers

8. 88: U.S. Military Academy, Miami (Fla.)

10. 87: Penn State and Stanford"

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2011-11-03/penn-state-stanford-lead-top-25-programs-in-graduation-rate
 

Dave68124

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~87% of the Penn State players graduate is 4 years or less, far above the general student population and among the highest in collecge sports.

"The GSR includes incoming transfers and students who enrolled in school in the spring. The players have to have received athletic aid and graduated. Those who left programs, but were academically eligible to compete, are not included.

1. 97 percent: Notre Dame

2. 94: Northwestern

3. 93: Boston College, Duke and Rice

6. 91: U.S. Naval Academy

7. 89: Rutgers

8. 88: U.S. Military Academy, Miami (Fla.)

10. 87: Penn State and Stanford"

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2011-11-03/penn-state-stanford-lead-top-25-programs-in-graduation-rate
Don't bother. With Alphabet it's about extracting vengence for against those jocks who were mean to him in school. (By his own admission)
 

aiabx

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~87% of the Penn State players graduate is 4 years or less, far above the general student population and among the highest in collecge sports.

"The GSR includes incoming transfers and students who enrolled in school in the spring. The players have to have received athletic aid and graduated. Those who left programs, but were academically eligible to compete, are not included.

1. 97 percent: Notre Dame

2. 94: Northwestern

3. 93: Boston College, Duke and Rice

6. 91: U.S. Naval Academy

7. 89: Rutgers

8. 88: U.S. Military Academy, Miami (Fla.)

10. 87: Penn State and Stanford"

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2011-11-03/penn-state-stanford-lead-top-25-programs-in-graduation-rate
Given the amount of work that goes into being a student athlete at a top-ranked school, am I alone in suspecting that their education includes a lot of cut corners required to keep their eligibility?
There's a lot of money at stake keeping a top-ranked team on the field, and a lot of incentive to rubber stamp a top player through school.
So I'm curious - how many football players get scholarships, and of those, how many actually get a worthwhile education?

(I see through Mini-Me that my personal abuse posse is still at work. Rock on Dave, I think you're more pathetic than Tater now)
 

Mini-Me

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Given the amount of work that goes into being a student athlete at a top-ranked school, am I alone in suspecting that their education includes a lot of cut corners required to keep their eligibility?
There's a lot of money at stake keeping a top-ranked team on the field, and a lot of incentive to rubber stamp a top player through school.
So I'm curious - how many football players get scholarships, and of those, how many actually get a worthwhile education?

(I see through Mini-Me that my personal abuse posse is still at work. Rock on Dave, I think you're more pathetic than Tater now)
Lighten up Frances. First it's being defensive about hockey and now a sensitive bum? :p
 

Marty Ward

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Given the amount of work that goes into being a student athlete at a top-ranked school, am I alone in suspecting that their education includes a lot of cut corners required to keep their eligibility?
That would be a typical uninformed response.
Many are like this recruit.

"Penn State Football: Lineman Urschel balances brains and brawn"

Read more here: http://www.centredaily.com/2012/07/08/3255001/penn-state-football-lineman-urschel.html#storylink=cpy

Many actually played professional football, who would have guessed!

Currently there are 43 former Penn State football player playing professional football (all types not just NFL)

There have been an additional 180 who played in the NFL. CFL, Arena USFL etc are not included.

Here is a partial list of Acemenic All Americans from Penn Stte:

The following were named First Team Academic All-America by the College Sports Information Directors of America (CoSIDA) while playing at Penn State:

Joe Bellas (1965)[17]
John Runnells (1965, 1966)[17]
Rich Buzin (1967)[17]
Dennis Onkotz (1969)[17]
Charlie Pittman (1969)[17]
Dave Joyner (1971)[17]
Bruce Bannon (1972)[17]
Mark Markovich (1973)[17]
Chuck Benjamin (1976)[17]
Keith Dorney (1978)[17]
Todd Blackledge (1982)[17]
Scott Radecic (1982)[17]
Harry Hamilton (1982, 1983)[17]
Lance Hamilton (1984, 1985)[17]
Carmen Masciantonio (1984)[17]
John Shaffer (1986)[17]
Jeff Hartings (1994, 1995)[17]
Tony Pittman (1994)[17]
Travis Forney (1999)[17]
Joe Iorio (2002)[17]
Andrew Guman (2004)[18]
Paul Posluszny (2005, 2006)[19]
Tim Shaw (2006)[19]
Gerald Cadogan (2007, 2008)[20][21]
Josh Hull (2008, 2009)[21][22]
Andrew Pitz (2008, 2009)[21][22]
Mark Rubin (2008)[21]
Stefen Wisniewski (2008, 2009, 2010)[22][23]
Chris Colasanti (2010)[23]
Pete Massaro (2010)[23]

"Nearly 400 student-athletes earn 3.0 GPA during spring semester"


http://gantdaily.com/2012/07/17/nearly-400-student-athletes-earn-3-0-gpa-during-spring-semester/
 

aiabx

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I'll need time to ponder and refute this - enough time to google past the invitations to apply for athletic scholarships in every school on earth...
Arguing at work has its limitations.

That would be a typical uninformed response.
Many are like this recruit.

"Penn State Football: Lineman Urschel balances brains and brawn"

Read more here: http://www.centredaily.com/2012/07/08/3255001/penn-state-football-lineman-urschel.html#storylink=cpy

Many actually played professional football, who would have guessed!

Currently there are 43 former Penn State football player playing professional football (all types not just NFL)

There have been an additional 180 who played in the NFL. CFL, Arena USFL etc are not included.

Here is a partial list of Acemenic All Americans from Penn Stte:

The following were named First Team Academic All-America by the College Sports Information Directors of America (CoSIDA) while playing at Penn State:

Joe Bellas (1965)[17]
John Runnells (1965, 1966)[17]
Rich Buzin (1967)[17]
Dennis Onkotz (1969)[17]
Charlie Pittman (1969)[17]
Dave Joyner (1971)[17]
Bruce Bannon (1972)[17]
Mark Markovich (1973)[17]
Chuck Benjamin (1976)[17]
Keith Dorney (1978)[17]
Todd Blackledge (1982)[17]
Scott Radecic (1982)[17]
Harry Hamilton (1982, 1983)[17]
Lance Hamilton (1984, 1985)[17]
Carmen Masciantonio (1984)[17]
John Shaffer (1986)[17]
Jeff Hartings (1994, 1995)[17]
Tony Pittman (1994)[17]
Travis Forney (1999)[17]
Joe Iorio (2002)[17]
Andrew Guman (2004)[18]
Paul Posluszny (2005, 2006)[19]
Tim Shaw (2006)[19]
Gerald Cadogan (2007, 2008)[20][21]
Josh Hull (2008, 2009)[21][22]
Andrew Pitz (2008, 2009)[21][22]
Mark Rubin (2008)[21]
Stefen Wisniewski (2008, 2009, 2010)[22][23]
Chris Colasanti (2010)[23]
Pete Massaro (2010)[23]

"Nearly 400 student-athletes earn 3.0 GPA during spring semester"


http://gantdaily.com/2012/07/17/nearly-400-student-athletes-earn-3-0-gpa-during-spring-semester/
 

Marty Ward

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I'll need time to ponder and refute this - enough time to google past the invitations to apply for athletic scholarships in every school on earth...
Arguing at work has its limitations.
What do you need to refute? Sure there are a few atheletes who skate by but most are students first.
 

aiabx

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All right - for the sake of the (arguably) few, I'll endorse the destruction of the football program, the dragging of the statue of JoePa behind a dung cart before it's melted down and cast into toilet pipes, and full academic scholarships to current players contingent on maintaining a certain GPA. Fair enough?

That would be a typical uninformed response.
Many are like this recruit.

"Penn State Football: Lineman Urschel balances brains and brawn"

Read more here: http://www.centredaily.com/2012/07/08/3255001/penn-state-football-lineman-urschel.html#storylink=cpy

Many actually played professional football, who would have guessed!

Currently there are 43 former Penn State football player playing professional football (all types not just NFL)

There have been an additional 180 who played in the NFL. CFL, Arena USFL etc are not included.

Here is a partial list of Acemenic All Americans from Penn Stte:

The following were named First Team Academic All-America by the College Sports Information Directors of America (CoSIDA) while playing at Penn State:

Joe Bellas (1965)[17]
John Runnells (1965, 1966)[17]
Rich Buzin (1967)[17]
Dennis Onkotz (1969)[17]
Charlie Pittman (1969)[17]
Dave Joyner (1971)[17]
Bruce Bannon (1972)[17]
Mark Markovich (1973)[17]
Chuck Benjamin (1976)[17]
Keith Dorney (1978)[17]
Todd Blackledge (1982)[17]
Scott Radecic (1982)[17]
Harry Hamilton (1982, 1983)[17]
Lance Hamilton (1984, 1985)[17]
Carmen Masciantonio (1984)[17]
John Shaffer (1986)[17]
Jeff Hartings (1994, 1995)[17]
Tony Pittman (1994)[17]
Travis Forney (1999)[17]
Joe Iorio (2002)[17]
Andrew Guman (2004)[18]
Paul Posluszny (2005, 2006)[19]
Tim Shaw (2006)[19]
Gerald Cadogan (2007, 2008)[20][21]
Josh Hull (2008, 2009)[21][22]
Andrew Pitz (2008, 2009)[21][22]
Mark Rubin (2008)[21]
Stefen Wisniewski (2008, 2009, 2010)[22][23]
Chris Colasanti (2010)[23]
Pete Massaro (2010)[23]

"Nearly 400 student-athletes earn 3.0 GPA during spring semester"


http://gantdaily.com/2012/07/17/nearly-400-student-athletes-earn-3-0-gpa-during-spring-semester/
 

MLaPanzer

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Had Sandusky been the head of the chemistry department would you advocate the destruction of the chemistry building and a ban on the study of chemistry throughout the land?
I am no supporter of PSU and I don't like the direction that college sports have taken over the years, but would rather target the perpetrator, enablers and accomplices...
YES if the Chemistry dept. Influenced the Administration to cover it up so as to keep it's legacy intact and the money flowing.

It's not the crime it's the cover up of a crime perpetrated by a member of the football administration that was covered up and allowed a CHILD RAPIST to continue his RAPING on it's property using it's facilities.

The NCAA is a voluntary organization and any University can remove itself from that organization at any time if it so wishes.


I call this the "Walking Dead"( A great TV show BTW) penalty it will probably end up being worse than the "death penalty". Your organization allows a CHILD RAPIST to use your facilities to RAPE CHILDREN then you pay. This is what PSU did .

Go listen to what Desmond Howard has to say on the matter. He gets it.
 

Dave68124

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(I see through Mini-Me that my personal abuse posse is still at work. Rock on Dave, I think you're more pathetic than Tater now)
:hurray:

Coming from a flake like you, this is a badge of honor. Too bad Tater, you apparently need to try harder.
 

Fort

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YES if the Chemistry dept. Influenced the Administration to cover it up so as to keep it's legacy intact and the money flowing.

It's not the crime it's the cover up of a crime perpetrated by a member of the football administration that was covered up and allowed a CHILD RAPIST to continue his RAPING on it's property using it's facilities.

The NCAA is a voluntary organization and any University can remove itself from that organization at any time if it so wishes.


I call this the "Walking Dead"( A great TV show BTW) penalty it will probably end up being worse than the "death penalty". Your organization allows a CHILD RAPIST to use your facilities to RAPE CHILDREN then you pay. This is what PSU did .

Go listen to what Desmond Howard has to say on the matter. He gets it.
Individuals did this...not the football program.

Bad cops don't mean the police department is forever banned.
 

MLaPanzer

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Individuals did this...not the football program.

Bad cops don't mean the police department is forever banned.
Well using that logic the NCAA should never place sanctions on any program. Hey OSU and USC you get your scholarships back. The programs at OSU, USC and PSU were rotten at the top and as institutions should pay for there breaking of NCAA rules.
 
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