Should MMP spend more energies on HASLs or Action Packs?

echack

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and a "new" Panzerblitz has been discussed (possibly vaporware on the same order as Up Front v.2)
Um. According to the Panzerblitz 2 message board on Consimworld, the game is near complete and is in final polish. Hardly vaporware.
 

Michael Dorosh

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Um. According to the Panzerblitz 2 message board on Consimworld, the game is near complete and is in final polish. Hardly vaporware.
LOL

Did they mention anything about "shipping on a Monday"?
 

Hexagoner

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Letting cash cows die

As someone who has occupied executive management positions and runs the IP department in a $250M/yr company, I think I can offer a perspective on the notion that Hasbro would never let a cash cow like ASL die. The short answer is "of course they would".

It is important to understand that resources of all kinds (cash, people, energy to pursue new and additional things, management support) are always in short supply in every company. Not enough "capital" of one sort or another do do everything they want to do. So they apply limited resources to a limited number of projects.

It's even worse with the Hasbro situation where they may very well not have had any champion(s) at the executive level within the company itself. That is nearly always fatal, as in that case there would be no voice to keep the opportunity in management's eye and continue to make a case for it.

However, even good management sometimes makes bad business decisions. Many times they go with inaccurate assumptions because there was not time or energy to develop fact-based assumptions that would help to make a better quality decision. Or the people tasked with developing the business plan are incompetent or too inexperienced to know how to do a good job at it - happens every day.

There are many, many reasons why Hasbro wouldn't have pursued ASL on their own, and frankly very few why they would have. Most companies have many more potential projects they could ever work on than what they actually pursue. Evan aside from politcs and "pet projects" concerns, issues such as strategic direction, R&D budgets, current market share in each product line, profitability, legal risks, and tons of other factors come into play, and often overwhelm "cash cow" new project considerations. I have several times fought unsuccessfully for extremely profitable projects, just to see them lose in the executive staff for these other reasons. And in these cases I was an internal champion of the project with a voice into all of the other decision makers.

I'm pretty firmly of the belief that if Curt Schilling didn't step up when he did, ASL would have had a slow death on the vine. No way would it be where it is today. The amount of jack Hasbro was requiring isn't found at small boardgame companies - they don't have the financial structure and cash to support that.

So count me in as a supporter of MMP, since without them, I don't think there is ASL as we know it. They aren't perfect, but have managed to keep the boat moving and even bring in some new players. We could do a lot worse. A heck of a lot worse.

hex
 
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James Taylor

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Sorry to interrupt such an entertaining thread, but I feel the need for some remedial discussion of logic 101:

Originally Posted by Pitman
I did not engage in an ad hominem. I did not even engage in a personal attack.

Brace yourselves...Mark's right.
Mark DID engage in the logical fallacy of abusive ad hominem.

The short definition from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem):

A (fallacious) ad hominem argument has the basic form:

Person A makes claim X
There is something objectionable about Person A
Therefore claim X is false


Mark may have done this with more eloquence than "You're wrong because you're ugly," but clearly his implication was that Portal's arguments are not valid because he is some twittering so and so. I'm pretty darn sure that characterization is not considered flattering by the majority of listners.

Now back to your regularly scheduled bashfest...

BTW: Until somebody interviews the powers that be at Hasbro none of us will ever know what was intended for ASL. Both sides to this argument are essentially unprovable without it. What we do know is that Curt & MMP stepped in and did something that I believe benefited all of us... they kept the game going as a creative endeavor. Based on my personal experience from being around Perry, Brian, etc., I don't believe ASL is some goose laying a golden egg. From the perspective of opportunity cost they very well could be doing something more lucrative with their time. NOTE: that does not mean that they could be doing something BETTER with their time.

JT
 

MrP

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BTW: Until somebody interviews the powers that be at Hasbro none of us will ever know what was intended for ASL. Both sides to this argument are essentially unprovable without it. What we do know is that Curt & MMP stepped in and did something that I believe benefited all of us... they kept the game going as a creative endeavor. Based on my personal experience from being around Perry, Brian, etc., I don't believe ASL is some goose laying a golden egg. From the perspective of opportunity cost they very well could be doing something more lucrative with their time. NOTE: that does not mean that they could be doing something BETTER with their time.
Never met those guys, but I'm glad they stepped up and kept the game alive. Could they do better? I bet they could in an ideal world. But its far from ideal and the job they do is constrained by that. We have to recognise that they're not a big company, they're effectively if not a one man band, then a few man band. I know all the arguments on the flip side, they've been presented before, but hey, we're a niche market here. I'm happy if I get to play every week - yep I like new shiny stuff, yep I like it coming here out when they say it is, but........

All sounds a bit happy clappy for me, but I'm feeling like that this morning. And hungover. Maybe I'm just not feeling myself (fnarr fnarr)
 

echack

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BTW: Until somebody interviews the powers that be at Hasbro none of us will ever know what was intended for ASL.
There is some indirect data. Mark McLaughlin, designer of GMT's The Napoleonic Wars was interviewed by the Point to Point wargames podcast a while ago. He told how TNW went from AH to AH/Hasbro to GMT. It appears that Hasbro, at first, intended to continue running AH as a wargames company and intended to honor the contract to publish TNW. After a short while they changed course and released the game back to him.

My guess is that one of two things happened at Hasbro:
- there was a change in who was in charge of the AH purchase and they didn't want to risk relaunching the brand as a wargame company
- Hasbro did a detailed analysis of the brand and decided that it wasn't worth the time and effort needed to run it.
 

wrongway149

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There is some indirect data. Mark McLaughlin, designer of GMT's The Napoleonic Wars was interviewed by the Point to Point wargames podcast a while ago. He told how TNW went from AH to AH/Hasbro to GMT. It appears that Hasbro, at first, intended to continue running AH as a wargames company and intended to honor the contract to publish TNW. After a short while they changed course and released the game back to him.

My guess is that one of two things happened at Hasbro:
- there was a change in who was in charge of the AH purchase and they didn't want to risk relaunching the brand as a wargame company
- Hasbro did a detailed analysis of the brand and decided that it wasn't worth the time and effort needed to run it.
Don't forget all the old AH titles now published/wannabe published by L2 Design Group. So, there are certainly other 'suitors'.
 

Jim McLeod

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and too many players didn't have any FtF opponents. ASL was loved and appreciated among these scattered players, but they didn't have anyone to play. For these affected players, VASL saved them.
Robert, care to elaborate on the above.

I personally feel that you are incorrect that ASL was reduced to small pockets of players prior to MMP taking over ASL.

JMO.
 

wrongway149

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L2DG's rate of output makes MMP look like Critical Hit.
Agreed on that one. I've been waiting over 5 years for War at Sea (not a large game, component-wise), and now I'm not sure I still want it for $60.

Plus, they aren't radically redesigning these games AFAICT, so playtesting cannot be a huge factor.

So, MMP cannot be considered production slackers by comparison.
 
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Psycho

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Agreed on that one. I've been waiting over 5 years for War at Sea (not a large game component-wise), and now I'm not sure I still want it for $60.

Plus, they aren't radically redesigning these games AFAICT, so playtest cannot be a huge factor.

So, MMP cannot be considered production slackers by comparison.
Try telling that to Portal :D
 

Portal

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Jim,

As much as I believe Wolkey is due his share of grief around here, it was my comment about VASL keeping the game alive for so many at the turn of the millenium.

Don't forget you're in the Canadian equivalent of Ohio for FtF ASL. And I'm not quite sure if that's a good thing or not.... :laugh: j/k
 

RobZagnut

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Robert, care to elaborate on the above.

I personally feel that you are incorrect that ASL was reduced to small pockets of players prior to MMP taking over ASL.

JMO.

That was not my statement. I was disputing that statement and like you, think that statement was incorrect.
 

dude163

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Jim,

As much as I believe Wolkey is due his share of grief around here, it was my comment about VASL keeping the game alive for so many at the turn of the millenium.

Don't forget you're in the Canadian equivalent of Ohio for FtF ASL. And I'm not quite sure if that's a good thing or not.... :laugh: j/k

holy cow if he is the CDN equiv of OH10 , WTH am I? Delaware?

is that still a state?
 
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