Shooting at a bypassing AFV with an AT Gun

[sfcmikej]

Hey Everyone,

I think I understand most of this but there are some questions still left in my mind. I have a Panther in bypass of AA6, in motion, in order to freeze the gun.

The gun has options some of which are covered in the Overrun Flowchart even though this is not an overrrun. They are:

During the MPh:
* The crew could declare Close Combat Reaction Fire, Pass a PAATC and CC the tank.
* The gun could shoot but has to change covered arc to match the hexside that the tank enter through (note i on the flowchart)
This would incur 2 CA changes for a +6 for the first hexspine and then a +2 for the next hexspine, a +4 for Case E and a -1 for a large target. Net +11
If the gun turns 2 hexsides clockwise then the entire hexside and the CAFP is in the guns CA.
If the gun turns counterclockwise 2 hexsides that puts the CAFP in the CA of the gun but not the entire hexside. The question is; is that enough or does it have to turn one more hexside in order to meet the note i requirements?

During the DFPh:
*The gun would incur the Case E penalty but not Case A . That wold be a +4 for Case E in a building, +2 for motion and -1 for large target. Net +5. However, does the gun still have to or could it opt to change it's CA to include the CAFP? Case E seems to say no but then lists an exception to VBM and refers to D2.321 so I am unsure as D2.321 doesn't seem to really address the CA change requirement. Either way the colored die would not determine facing. It would be a side hit on the hull and a front hit on the turret.

Do I have that right? Thanks for the clarification on the questions in red.

Mike

 

[MajorDomo]

The answer is that the gun must turn to fire at the Panther in Defensive First Fire. It must include the hexside of the bypassing Panther in its CA.

If it waits until Defensive Final Fire, then no need to turn CA to fire at the Panther.

Rich

 

[klasmalmstrom]

It looks to me like the Panther entered the hex through hexside AA6-BB5, so the Gun only has to turn its CA one hexspine (towards BB4) to have that hexside withing its CA - it if wants to shoot during the MPh.

 

[Philippe R]

It looks to me like the Panther entered the hex through hexside AA6-BB5, so the Gun only has to turn its CA one hexspine (towards BB4) to have that hexside withing its CA - it if wants to shoot during the MPh.

The Panther is in BB6-AA7-AA6, clearly 180° from the actual Gun Muzzle... but that Location is in the Gun CA by definition.
By the way, why the Crew should take a PAATC ? it's a crew, not afraid by AFV...

 

[klasmalmstrom]

The Panther is in BB6-AA7-AA6, clearly 180° from the actual Gun Muzzle... but that Location is in the Gun CA by definition.

Where the AFV is at when it is at the CAFP doesn't matter when the Guns fires at it during the MPh - only that the hexside it crossed when it entered the hex is withing the Gun's CA.

 

[sfcmikej]

Klas said:

It looks to me like the Panther entered the hex through hexside AA6-BB5, so the Gun only has to turn its CA one hexspine (towards BB4) to have that hexside withing its CA - it if wants to shoot during the MPh.

And:

Where the AFV is at when it is at the CAFP doesn't matter when the Guns fires at it during the MPh - only that the hexside it crossed when it entered the hex is withing the Gun's CA.

Klas I am loathe to question your rules wisdom but you have me confused here. I would think that he is coming into the hex on hex side AA6-BB6 as that is what he is bypassing. You are saying he is entering through AA6-BB5. Is there anything in the rules that would support that?

The Panther is in BB6-AA7-AA6, clearly 180° from the actual Gun Muzzle... but that Location is in the Gun CA by definition.
By the way, why the Crew should take a PAATC ? it's a crew, not afraid by AFV...

Philippe, only Berserk, Fannatic aand SMC are exempt from PAATC, the crews are brave, but not that brave!

Thanks Klas and Philippe for the input.

Mike

 

[Robin Reeve]

A bypassing vehicle is never moving on a hexside.
It is moving into a hex, around an obstacle.
If coming from an ADJACENT hex, it always crosses a hexside of the entered hex.

 

[jrv]

Klas I am loathe to question your rules wisdom but you have me confused here. I would think that he is coming into the hex on hex side AA6-BB6 as that is what he is bypassing. You are saying he is entering through AA6-BB5. Is there anything in the rules that would support that?

The unit is *on* the AA6-BB6 hexside. It entered the hex *across* the AA6-BB5 hexside. It would have to, as it moved from BB5 to AA6. In order to enter *across* the AA6-BB6 hexside, it would have to move to BB6 first.

JR

 

[sfcmikej]

Hey all,

OK I see the logic in that. So during the movement phase the gun can fire by turning clockwise one hexspine for a +6, Case E for +4 (that is x 2 for the building) for for being in the hex, +2 for moving and -1 for large target. Net is a +11 to the TH number. If he waits unit the DFPh then he only gets the +4 for Case E and +2 for moving, -1 for large for a net +5 TH. No Case A and no covered arc change. It would be a side or front shot depending on hull or turret hit as the colored die location formula does not apply to bypass. ROF applies as normal, one less on the gun if it changes covered arc to fire and no change if it fires in the DFPh.

Thanks everyone for the assist. Much appreciated.

Mike