Shoot the messenger

TopT

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The problem is war is no longer simply among Westphailian states. If your enemy is an idea, you can't beat them as long as one person remains to sit on top the pile of rubble to declare victory. -- jim
I understood that when I was typing my response. You're response summed it up better than I did, just put Taliban in instead of Iranians.

"Clear ROE and mission objectives". The Iranians are going to say "we beat you no matter what".

We did not lose, the Taliban terrorize the civilians, we cannot be everywhere, thus the civilians must abide the Taliban. The vast majority of the population would welcome us if they had a choice. They do not.
 

Sparafucil3

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We did not lose, the Taliban terrorize the civilians, we cannot be everywhere, thus the civilians must abide the Taliban. The vast majority of the population would welcome us if they had a choice. They do not.
I don't think I agree, but even if I did, I would not make this the objective. If they want freedom, they can bloody well fight for it. -- jim
 

TopT

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I don't think I agree, but even if I did, I would not make this the objective. If they want freedom, they can bloody well fight for it. -- jim
Are you willing to risk your wife, children, their children, your parents, brothers, sisters & all of their children? That is what it will take. Not too many will step up for that kind of risk.

On my first tour in Iraq, we had a local national bring around DVD's to sell. AQI warned him once, the next time they made him watch as they cut his brother's head off and then he was locked in the trunk of a car to die slowly in the sun. He did get rescued and left the country.

On my 1st tour in Afghanistan, the people did help us fight. We squandered that help.
 

Sparafucil3

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Are you willing to risk your wife, children, their children, your parents, brothers, sisters & all of their children? That is what it will take. Not too many will step up for that kind of risk.

On my first tour in Iraq, we had a local national bring around DVD's to sell. AQI warned him once, the next time they made him watch as they cut his brother's head off and then he was locked in the trunk of a car to die slowly in the sun. He did get rescued and left the country.

On my 1st tour in Afghanistan, the people did help us fight. We squandered that help.
At least the Brits only hanged Patrick Henry. Do you think the wager was any less for the colonial citizens of 1770? Do you think the risks any less for the French citizens of a scant decade (or so) later? That's the nature of trying to over-throw tyrants, it comes at a cost to yourself and all the people around you. WRT to "squandering": at some point, they need to stand on their own two feet. It sounds cliche, but you and I both know it's true: Freedom isn't free and it isn't easy.

Am I willing to risk anything for them? At one point, I was. Not anymore. I am ready for new ideas and new leadership to see if there is an outcome all sides can at least stomach. FWIW, I never wanted to go to the ME. Wasn't my choice so I do the best I can to support the effort. If someone asks my opinion, I simply tell them "I would leave and never go back". -- jim
 

TopT

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Am I willing to risk anything for them? At one point, I was. Not anymore. I am ready for new ideas and new leadership to see if there is an outcome all sides can at least stomach. FWIW, I never wanted to go to the ME. Wasn't my choice so I do the best I can to support the effort. If someone asks my opinion, I simply tell them "I would leave and never go back". -- jim
I am with you on leaving the ME. We produce enough oil/ LNG to sustain ourselves, Central America and Western Europe for a long time. We could easily work on a substitute energy solution in the mean time. Let them sell to Africa.

It wasn't in the cards but I had wished the the EU had joined us in the tariff war on Chinese products. They [EU] are forced to the same standards that the President is arguing against in dealing with the Chinese. The 2 largest trade partners together might have caused some major changes in trade worldwide but alas... I know there is more to this topic than this little paragraph.
 

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It wasn't in the cards but I had wished the the EU had joined us in the tariff war on Chinese products. They [EU] are forced to the same standards that the President is arguing against in dealing with the Chinese. The 2 largest trade partners together might have caused some major changes in trade worldwide but alas... I know there is more to this topic than this little paragraph.
Everyone talks about "if you don't, the Chinese will" as if they aren't already in bed with them. Maybe they are better deal. -- jim
 

TopT

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Everyone talks about "if you don't, the Chinese will" as if they aren't already in bed with them. Maybe they are better deal. -- jim
Sorry, I have no idea where you are going with that but on a different note, on 60 minutes last night, I watched an episode in which they talked about a company called Xyleco and a very viable alternative to oil or petrochemicals. A who's who Board of Directors that claims that this could replace 30% of all oil consumption by breaking down the cellulose in inedible plants.

They are saying that they have created a process that could make plastics break down in as little as 11 weeks or could extend to 10 years.

Also, no need to change any current fuel pumps as it could use the current ones in place and it burns 77% cleaner that gasoline.

The government might not get behind this as they are beholden to Big Oil but if AOC really wanted to get behind something for her Clean America plan this could be something. It seems to be a much more realistic proposition than thinking that all of America would be using electric cars in 12 years (she is also in the same episode). This combined with a Manhattan style program for renewable energy/ re-chargeable batteries could really change America's impact on the world and all of these advances could be shared across the world. It seems to be a win, win. It would push oil to a 2nd tier commodity I would think and remove our reliance on oil in general or the ME specifically.
 

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I think I will just leave this here. -- jim
 
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