SFF and SW question


Feb 4, 2003
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llUnited States
from the other list, interesting little discussion, want to see what people here think.
Had a situation come up a few days ago.

I had a British 457 with a Piat, first fired the inherent FP at a German unit 3 hexes away, another German unit moved adjacent, I subsequent first fired at it. At this point the 457 and the 8-1 leader with it are under a final fired marker, the Piat (which has yet to fire) is uncovered.
My opponent then moved a Panther next to my unit.
Can the Piat fire? My opponent thought no, because the 457 subsequent first fired and had a final fire marker on it. I originally agreed with him but then he couldnt find anything in the RB forbidding it. The closest we could come was 8.3 about 2/3 of the way through the paragraph
"Whenever a unit uses Subsequent First Fire, it must use all MG/IFE in its possession as Subsequent First Fire or forfeit their use for the remainder of that Player turn......."

Piats are not MG or IFE so using 'cowtra' i am now thinking the Piat could fire, even though its owning unit is final fired.

what say the list?

******My response***********

A7.33 A squad which has fired it's inherent FP but not yet used it's SW(verbage) should be marked with the proper prep/first fire/final fire counter but with the SW on top of that counter URESTRAINED by it.
This shows a squad can be marked Finaled with it's support weapon not marked

A8.4 During Final fire any of the DEFENDERS units/weapons that are not marked with a First/Final/Intensive/No fire counter may fire.
This mentions units/weapons...SW are considered weapons. A8.23 ROF MG are considered weapons, see the example there for details. So if a SW is not marked per A7.33 then it can fire during final fire per A8.4

A8.3 a squad may not split it's inherent FP from that of it's MG/IFE during subsequent First Fire unless it ops not to use the remaining FP/SW at all.
I think this is a verbage thing. The FP/SW reference is actually referring to the MG/IFE. what this makes you do is fire your MG with your squad but actually leaves out other 1/2" SW types.
So I think the Piat can fire.

Note: A german squad cannot do a PF check as SFF. so once the squad had a First Fire counter on it PF's are N/A.