Settle a bet for me about motion vehicles...

von Marwitz

Forum Guru
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
14,358
Reaction score
10,207
Location
Kraut Corner
Country
llUkraine
Well, announcing that you will spend all your remaining MP to enter an hex before entering it (the legal way) and announcing that you do it once you entered the hex so as to remain in Motion (which is not legal) are not light years apart.
Tell that to some over-ambitious tournament shark that does not like VBM and wants your vehicle stopped so that he can kill it easier. I've had it happen to me.

von Marwitz
 

Philippe D.

Elder Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2016
Messages
2,132
Reaction score
1,393
Location
Bordeaux
Country
llFrance
I have no problem with announcing over-spending of MF when moving. The thing is, if you don't try to respect that, at some point when something unexpected happens in the planned last hex (like, a previously HIP gun opening fire), the player might want to change his plans and move on - something he would not be able to do if he explicitly announced spending more MP.

But, it means that, when you are conscious of this, you need to count your MP in advance to decide how best to overspend. And that certainly slows down play.
 

Vinnie

See Dummies in the index
Joined
Feb 9, 2005
Messages
17,426
Reaction score
3,365
Location
Aberdeen , Scotland
Country
llUnited Kingdom
I tend to be officious about this very early in the game so when it actually matters, there is more chance of it bring remembered. Consistency is he key, dontvallow "and end in motion" on turn 1 when the defences are not reached if you are going to be sticky about it on turn 5 when you are down to knife fighting.
 

Robin Reeve

The Swiss Moron
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Messages
19,595
Reaction score
5,557
Location
St-Légier
First name
Robin
Country
llSwitzerland
Tell that to some over-ambitious tournament shark that does not like VBM and wants your vehicle stopped so that he can kill it easier. I've had it happen to me.

von Marwitz
Sharks exist.
Not being one is teaching by example.
 

Robin Reeve

The Swiss Moron
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Messages
19,595
Reaction score
5,557
Location
St-Légier
First name
Robin
Country
llSwitzerland
I have no problem with announcing over-spending of MF when moving. The thing is, if you don't try to respect that, at some point when something unexpected happens in the planned last hex (like, a previously HIP gun opening fire), the player might want to change his plans and move on - something he would not be able to do if he explicitly announced spending more MP.

But, it means that, when you are conscious of this, you need to count your MP in advance to decide how best to overspend. And that certainly slows down play.
I agree.
Speeding up play would have my preference over risking a change of mind that not announcing the "all remaing MP cost" before a vehicle enters a hex could make possible.
 
Last edited:

Tooz

Elder Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Messages
1,338
Reaction score
1,061
Location
York, PA
Country
llUnited States
Jazz, yes I have. Gets frustrating realizing that no matter how long you have been playing you still realize you are doing some things wrong or have forgotten many rules over time. Damn, one six pack lost...
 

Jacometti

Elder Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2008
Messages
3,913
Reaction score
1,898
Location
Halifax, NS
Country
llCanada
Tell that to some over-ambitious tournament shark that does not like VBM and wants your vehicle stopped so that he can kill it easier. I've had it happen to me.

von Marwitz
Read my VBM Freeze article in the Journal (side bar "playing by the MP") and you will see why it is important you play it correctly. Out of courtesy to your opponent.
 

von Marwitz

Forum Guru
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
14,358
Reaction score
10,207
Location
Kraut Corner
Country
llUkraine
Read my VBM Freeze article in the Journal (side bar "playing by the MP") and you will see why it is important you play it correctly. Out of courtesy to your opponent.
I am not arguing against playing it correctly.

But I argue against people who insist on having it played exactly this way vs. an opponent who did not know this requirement of the rule. Of course, he had the rule behind him so everything he did was strictly legit, but it would have been more sportsmanlike IMHO to explain the rule and let the other reannounce the MP expenditure for the hex-entry, which he denied.

It gained the former the destruction of a tank but gave the latter the described impression of that guy as described in my post #21 which has somewhat lingered to this day.

A matter of playing style, I suppose.

von Marwitz
 

klasmalmstrom

Forum Guru
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Messages
19,778
Reaction score
7,201
Location
Sweden
Country
llSweden
But I argue against people who insist on having it played exactly this way vs. an opponent who did not know this requirement of the rule. Of course, he had the rule behind him so everything he did was strictly legit, but it would have been more sportsmanlike IMHO to explain the rule and let the other reannounce the MP expenditure for the hex-entry, which he denied.
When I play vs someone that says e.g., "13 and 14 into Bypass and end there in Motion" - I usually ask them (before declaring/revealing anything) - "so you spend the rest of your MP going into bypass there then".

At least if I know the person I am playing is not that experienced and/or I don't know him (probably otherwise to. :) ).
 

Larry

Elder Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2003
Messages
5,383
Reaction score
1,735
Location
Guada La Habra
Country
llUnited States
Tell that to some over-ambitious tournament shark that does not like VBM and wants your vehicle stopped so that he can kill it easier. I've had it happen to me.

von Marwitz
That depends on whether both players have agreed in word or deed to play loose and permit backing up a location to do it "right" or an inexperienced player that you would not expect to put those nuances together.
 

von Marwitz

Forum Guru
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
14,358
Reaction score
10,207
Location
Kraut Corner
Country
llUkraine
That depends on whether both players have agreed in word or deed to play loose and permit backing up a location to do it "right" or an inexperienced player that you would not expect to put those nuances together.
As I said, this is a matter of playing style.

I would allow it without having to formally 'agree' on it beforehand.
Others not.

I can still find satisfaction in a game when giving the opponent a chance to redo a particular MP expenditure that he certainly would not have done if he had not been ignorant of a rule. And bettering my chances for a win by taking advantage of such a situation is less important to me than reducing the fun of my opponent.

Each to his own, I reckon.

von Marwitz
 
Last edited:

Jacometti

Elder Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2008
Messages
3,913
Reaction score
1,898
Location
Halifax, NS
Country
llCanada
As I said, this is a matter of playing style.

I would allow it without having to formally 'agree' on it beforehand.
Others not.

I can still find satisfaction in a game when giving the opponent a chance to redo a particular MP expenditure that he certainly would not have done if he had not been ignorant of a rule. And bettering my chances for a win by taking advantage of such a situation is less important to me than reducing the fun of my opponent.

Each to his own, I reckon.

von Marwitz
Hi there,

after playing in the US more often over the past years, I have certainly increased my appreciation for sportsmanship in the game. Being a rules nazi really does not improve your chances of winning and it will certainly ruin or diminish your gaming experience. So I completely agree with you - be nice about it.

However, I also think at a certain level of play you can both have the courtesy to play it right and not get into the habit of needing "help" from your opponent to avoid or correct real mistakes.

Sometimes in a game you get into the situation where you ask yourself "what is the other guy going to ask for next?" - ie going back to the OBA part of the Prep Fire Phase after firing other weapons, making Rally rolls during the MPh, asking you to move your tank back a few hexes to take a shot at it etc.....

That is also not a nice way to play this game, even in a friendly game it takes away the fun of making decisions and living with them.
 

Robin Reeve

The Swiss Moron
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Messages
19,595
Reaction score
5,557
Location
St-Légier
First name
Robin
Country
llSwitzerland
There is a balance to find between sloppy play and edgy play.

I try to play the rules at my best, which does honour my opponent - in addition to playing my best game.
I will give some slack to my opponent and allow some redos, when they don't have a dramatic effect on the game.
ASL is a game where I expect and give a social dimension - but socializing implies treating one's opponent with respect.
Sharking with rules minutiae or being carless are two damageable extremes.

The key, I think, is not in the accumulation of small rules that players establish beforehand, but in some more living, more natural "gaming culture".
Play seriously but have fun...
 

Larry

Elder Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2003
Messages
5,383
Reaction score
1,735
Location
Guada La Habra
Country
llUnited States
I can play fast and a little loose, prefer to, or I can play deliberate and by the ASOP/ASLRB. It is your choice.
 

Jacometti

Elder Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2008
Messages
3,913
Reaction score
1,898
Location
Halifax, NS
Country
llCanada
I can play fast and a little loose, prefer to, or I can play deliberate and by the ASOP/ASLRB. It is your choice.
I think we should always play by the ASLRB.......as for the ASOP: it is not a torture instrument.....it is a guide......with a few exceptions that really do make a difference to how the game is played......
 

von Marwitz

Forum Guru
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
14,358
Reaction score
10,207
Location
Kraut Corner
Country
llUkraine
There is a balance to find between sloppy play and edgy play.

I try to play the rules at my best, which does honour my opponent - in addition to playing my best game.
I will give some slack to my opponent and allow some redos, when they don't have a dramatic effect on the game.
ASL is a game where I expect and give a social dimension - but socializing implies treating one's opponent with respect.
Sharking with rules minutiae or being carless are two damageable extremes.

The key, I think, is not in the accumulation of small rules that players establish beforehand, but in some more living, more natural "gaming culture".
Play seriously but have fun...
Swiftandsure aptly formulates what both Jacometti and I have as common ground.

I agree that making a habit of redos and requiring redos for (repeated) sloppy play is not something that should be encouraged. I have also seen some players which were playing ASL for many years that had their opponent calculate TH DRMs for them for each and every shot. That's is tiring and inadequate.

Generally, I think throughout a scenario you come to understand rather quickly if a player is very experienced or a relative novice and with this it is not difficult to adjust one's own tolerance to redos accordingly. And we also know that some minutiae even elude very experienced players in which case it a fair call IMHO to make them aware of these with the option to adjust.

von Marwitz
 

von Marwitz

Forum Guru
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
14,358
Reaction score
10,207
Location
Kraut Corner
Country
llUkraine
I think we should always play by the ASLRB.......as for the ASOP: it is not a torture instrument.....it is a guide......with a few exceptions that really do make a difference to how the game is played......
I agree on this, too.

It is a neverending struggle to master the rules, nevertheless one should venture to do so and improve one's play and rules knowledge.

As for the ASOP: I won't call anyone for doing a repair attempt or transfer in the wrong order. Nevertheless, at least I try to develop the habit of doing it in the correct order.

von Marwitz
 

Eagle4ty

Forum Guru
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
6,913
Reaction score
5,094
Location
Eau Claire, Wi
Country
llUnited States
The one thing I'm fairly anal about is firing direct fire smoke before indirect fire; perhaps because of the game impact. Other items such as weapon repair, rally, deploy, etc. I'm a little less strict about, usually performing actions starting at one side of the board and moving to the other as long as intent of the rules are not violated (i.e. allowing an action that would otherwise be prohibited). I've found the more strict you are on yourself it will have an impact on your opponent's play and his approach to the game as well and usually enhances the enjoyment level for both as it reduces the potential for rules conflicts/misunderstandings (and there will almost always be at least one in a game). YMMV
 
Top