Set Demolition Charge Visibility Status

applecatcher4

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Hey All
I have set up a dc during setup to destroy a bridge in turn 1. The dc counter is on its own and the attacker is setting up entirely offboard. Does the counter lay there naked as not possessed, concealed as the attacker is offboard or HIP? Can find no hint of which.
Thanks so much in advance.
 

applecatcher4

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Hey All
I have set up a dc during setup to destroy a bridge in turn 1. The dc counter is on its own and the attacker is setting up entirely offboard. Does the counter lay there naked as not possessed, concealed as the attacker is offboard or HIP? Can find no hint of which.
Thanks so much in advance.
Sorry. To be clear: it is a set demolition charge.
 

Kijug

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NRH but without an SSR stating HIP units, the DC sets up visible onboard. After setup, it can get concealed per chapter A if the “unit” is out of LOS (low rule #, don’t recall). My two cents.
 

applecatcher4

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Thanks Kijug. You have helped clarify things in my mind. However, I don't think unpossessed support weapons can become concealed but it doesn't really matter as he gets to see where it is anyway.
Martin
 

EagleIV

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Actually Kijug's answer is misleading. The location with the Set DC (charges that are supposed to blow up the building/bridge/etc.) has nothing in it. The unit that Set the DC possesses the DC counter and it represents the detonator, not the actual charges. The DC/detonator is placed unconcealed on top of the unit possessing it just like any other SW, although during setup other units/counters can be placed on top of it normally to hide where it is.

Note that you can only Set a DC during setup if an SSR allows it, otherwise you can't Set the DC just because it is in your OB.
 

EagleIV

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Somewhere (I can't find it now) there is a Q&A that says if the setting squad deploys, only the HS that possess the DC counter/detonator can later detonate the Set DC. (I will admit this could be an old SL rule.)
 

Kijug

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Read A23.7 carefully. A unit must be nearby to detonate. In part,

A Set DC may be detonated using the 36+ IFT column during any friendly fire phase in a subsequent Player Turn by that Good Order unit (or one of its derivative HS, if a squad which has been Reduced or Deployed), provided it is within six hexes and LOS of the DC (but at least two hexes away), and passes a NTC.

So if SSR let you set a DC with no units, you’ll need a unit to run nearby in order to denigrate it—pending other SSRs for this seemingly special setup situation.
 

Actionjick

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Read A23.7 carefully. A unit must be nearby to detonate. In part,

A Set DC may be detonated using the 36+ IFT column during any friendly fire phase in a subsequent Player Turn by that Good Order unit (or one of its derivative HS, if a squad which has been Reduced or Deployed), provided it is within six hexes and LOS of the DC (but at least two hexes away), and passes a NTC.

So if SSR let you set a DC with no units, you’ll need a unit to run nearby in order to denigrate it—pending other SSRs for this seemingly special setup situation.
I think you meant detonate. Personally I would be reluctant to speak badly of a demo charge, set, placed or thrown. 😉
 

EagleIV

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Read A23.7 carefully. A unit must be nearby to detonate. In part,

A Set DC may be detonated using the 36+ IFT column during any friendly fire phase in a subsequent Player Turn by that Good Order unit (or one of its derivative HS, if a squad which has been Reduced or Deployed), provided it is within six hexes and LOS of the DC (but at least two hexes away), and passes a NTC.

So if SSR let you set a DC with no units, you’ll need a unit to run nearby in order to denigrate it—pending other SSRs for this seemingly special setup situation.
If an SSR allows you to Set an OB given DC, you have to designate a unit as having Set the DC (at some point before the start of the scenario) and give that unit the DC detonator (and he/they will have to pass the NTC to detonate the DC). No denigration involved. In RB this isn't all that special of a setup situation.
 

Michael R

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The reference I am asking for is to confirm that the detonating unit holds onto the Set Up DC.
 

ScottRomanowski

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concealed per chapter A if the “unit” is out of LOS
A12.12 lets unconcealed units gain concealment, but a DC (or any unpossessed SW) is not a "unit" per the Index.

@EagleIV I think this may be the Q&A you're thinking of:
"A23.7 Assume a squad, assisted by a leader, Sets a DC. Is that leader qualified to detonate it? If that squad later Deploys, will both of its HS be qualified to detonate it?
"A. No. No – when the squad Deploys, record on side record the ID of one of the HS that retains the ability. [An92; An95w; An96]"

As @Kijug pointed out, the unit detonating the DC must be ≥ two hexes away from the DC. It can't still be possessing the DC; the DC must be left in the Location where it was Set.
 

Eagle4ty

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Actually Kijug's answer is misleading. The location with the Set DC (charges that are supposed to blow up the building/bridge/etc.) has nothing in it. The unit that Set the DC possesses the DC counter and it represents the detonator, not the actual charges. The DC/detonator is placed unconcealed on top of the unit possessing it just like any other SW, although during setup other units/counters can be placed on top of it normally to hide where it is.

Note that you can only Set a DC during setup if an SSR allows it, otherwise you can't Set the DC just because it is in your OB.
"?".
If your OB is given a "Set DC" ability that its detonation location has nor been prerecorded during setup, any S/HS possessing the "Set DC" may place/set it as per A23.7 (... or which was Set and declared during play by an Infantry unit which spent all of its MF (using Hazardous Movement) to Set the DC in its Location during its MPh and made a dr ≤ its US# (subject to leadership drm by any leader assisting the unit to Set the DC) without being pinned or broken.).
 

nekengren2

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After the Possessing Infantry which "detonates" the placed DC passes the NTC...............
Is this considered use of a SW?
Is this a concealment loss activity? at night?

I don't see where it specifically says anything about this. OWTRA says some sneaky guys click a button and don't reveal anything.
 

EagleIV

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From the Q&A file taking the NTC (whether you pass or not) counts as use of a SW but is not a concealment loss activity. I would post quotes, but I can't copy text from a pdf, but look for "detonate" in the latest file.
 

nekengren2

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Thanks. PerrySez explains it......................
Is there any penalty for failing a Set DC detonation NTC, other than being unable to detonate the DC? A.It is use of a SW.

And this make a Set DC NTC an EXCEPTION with no loss of concealment. yep.......sneaky guys just clicked a button..
12.141 ACTIONS: Any other activity which a concealed unit engages in
[EXC: operation of radio/field phone; taking a PAATC or Set DC NTC;
 

cooljrunner

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What happens to a DC counter which was “Set and declared during play by an Infantry unit” (A23.7). Does it remain in the Location, stays with the setting unit, or something else? A23.72 implies the DC counter does not remain alone in the location because “Searching will reveal…… a hidden Set DC”. The Set DC would not be very well hidden if just sitting there by its lonesome. Follow-on question, say the infantry setting the DC is concealed and out of enemy LOS. Would gameplay go something like this: say out loud “a unit declares a Set DC attempt” but do not indicate which unit, then make the dr (visible, not a secret dr)?
 

ScottRomanowski

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If set during play, the DC remains in the location, unpossessed. I don't think you get to move the DC counter around, faking your opponent into thinking your unit still possesses a DC. A23.7 says "and declared" so even if a concealed unit out of enemy LOS is trying to set a DC, I think you have to declare which unit and which Location is attempting. That declaration makes any attempt at fakery useless.

The "hidden" part of A23.72 is because some scenarios/CGs have SSRs/rules the let you set up some HIP Set DC (e.g. in Red Factories CGs, where a HIP Set DC costs 15 FPP + a DC).
Historical note: ASLRBv1 didn't have that part about Searching and Random SW destruction. The Red Barricades rules had that wording when you could purchase a HIP Set DC, and it must have been rolled into ASLRBv2.
 
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