Scenarios - Why isn't RB CG structure used more often?

RobZagnut

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Why isn’t the Red Barricades CG structure used for single scenarios or for a series of scenarios? The purchase phase using CPP is one of the best and most exciting aspects of ASL that has ever been designed. I’m surprised that it isn’t being used in scenario packs.

For example - Each side gets a list of available units for three scenarios. For each of the scenarios they get a certain number of CPP to purchase units and are shown on what board configuration each of the scenarios will be fought. Whatever is purchased on scenario #1 cannot be used for scenarios #2 and #3.

Think it as Timoshenko’s Attack, but instead of playing all at once on three boards, play three different scenarios one at a time.

For example - I buy this cool scenario pack and it has 9 scenarios. Three sets of three scenarios (A,B & C) using the above system. I invite Joe over to play. We pick group B, because it’s East Front. Before Joe comes over we look at the map configurations, read the victory conditions for each scenario, see how many CPP we can spend for each scenario, make our purchases for each and then decide to play (or randomly roll) the 3rd scenario in group B.

We play a close game, but Joe wins. He has used up his Pioneer purchases in that third scenario, so I know I won’t have to face them in scenarios 1 or 2 and he hasn’t seen either of my Guard units yet, but I haven’t seen his StuG platoon yet either. Best 2 out of 3 wins the series.

This would also be great for three round mini tournaments as a player wouldn’t have to play the same person each scenario, but would still be restricted by what units they purchased for each scenario. Imagine all the Russian and German players huddled in two separate rooms deciding what CPP should be used for the three scenarios as each player is bound by the group’s decision!

Three inter-linked scenarios. All tied together by initial purchases and planning. This gives you the same angst and excitement that you get in Red Barricades, but gives those of us with restricted time the ability to play shorter scenarios.

Just a thought.
 

RobZagnut

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>It HAS. but the scenario(s) aren't published.

So, the check is in the mail? :)

Red Barricades has almost been out for 15 years and there are NO non-CG published scenarios that use the CPP mechanic. Correct?
 

chris_olden

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hey Rob,
I know of one scenario that was done for the Coastal Fortress website;
Bruce Kirkaldy did a Berin scenario that was very good, wherein he
had a purchase table for both players that made for a VERY interesting
game. However, I don't know of any "published" scearnios that use
the RB CG system for a set of sequential scenarios.
"PUBLISHED" mind you...:D
co

p.s.-actually, there are quite a few scenarios that allow
you to purchase OB goodies, but Bruce's was
excellent.
 

Beardo1976

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I would think playtesting would be a bear with so many variables, but its definitely something that I would like to see!



Jason
 

Glennbo

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I would think playtesting would be a bear with so many variables, but its definitely something that I would like to see!
The East Side Gamers are deeply, passionately in love with Mr. Wolkey's idea, and have wanted to design it for a long time. As stated above however, our playtesting time is limited, and we wouldn't be able to adequately playtest such designs. We take great pride in our work, and wouldn't want to hurt our reputation by churning out something just for the sake of doing it. The closest I've come in my designs is linking two scenarios by having the exited units from the first one arrive as reinforcements for the second.

But it is a great idea! Mr. Wolkey has done well to bring the subject up. I notice in his example that he doesn't require the scenarios to be played in chronological order. I think they should be played in order, but I can see how that would not be neccessary.

The three by three scenario pack sounds like the best format. I would like to design something like that. There are many battles were it could be applied.

If everybody on the forum sent me a lot of money, I could quit my job and devote myself to this project. C'mon people! Give 'till it hurts! :D
 

larth

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>It HAS. but the scenario(s) aren't published.

So, the check is in the mail? :)

Red Barricades has almost been out for 15 years and there are NO non-CG published scenarios that use the CPP mechanic. Correct?
PB 7 Piece of Cake allows "buying" part of the force at least.

Variations would using the DYO, defining one side on the scenario card and the other being a DYO side. The player bidding lowest BPV value gets to play the DYO side.

Or to define 2 or 3 OB's for each side which is the selected secretly. Attacker selects OB A, B or C and sets up. The attacker must select his OB a), b) or c) without knowing which was used by the defender.

These types of "dynamic" scenarios would be more challeging, but quite a lot to playtest and balance!
 

Mehl

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About half of the Blood Reef Tarawa scenarios require the Japanese to buy a bunch of stuff for their set up. Kind of a turn off.
 

JD Sullivan

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Dream Pod 9 had a flowing mechanic for the Heavy Gear Tactical game campaigns.

There would be around 9 scenarios in all and the mini-campaign book had a flow chart for the scenarios. If once side won mission 1 then the players would play scenario 3. Depending upon that scenario's victor you could go forward or backwards with refit cycles built in to repair damaged mechs/gears and replenish supplies. The campaign could go quickly if one side was better or both sides could attrit each other to nothing.

I thought it was a pretty slick mechanic for generating tactical scenarios that fit into an overall campaign goal and Kampfguppe Commander looks like it is analogous to it.
 

rcornwell

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Tactiques did a couple of scenarios in this style.

Also the Paddington Bears did a couple of Octobear tournaments using unit purchasing some years ago. Paul Seage did one in Burma and I did one on Operation Bagration. They each had 4 scenarios and purchase sheets. They were pretty well received.

I think they are both on the Bears' website.


All the best


Richard
 

Bryan Holtby

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As someone else pointed out, playtesting would be a bear. Each scenario would have to be played out with different combinations resulting in hundreds of playings to test a 3 or 4 part 'purchasing' scenario group.
 

rdw5150

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"Dream Pod 9 had a flowing mechanic for the Heavy Gear Tactical game campaigns"

WOW I have not thought about that game for years.... I always likes those figs

Peace

roger
 

2 Bit Bill

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I think we did something this at the 94 Tourney in LeGleize. Unfortunately, the 1st scenario had the Germans recording over 100 items HIP. It was a little bit too much to try to recall where everything was located. I was thinkin' about this on the "take back moves" thread.

At NOWSCON, we had 3 forces, 3 separate maps, and had to decide which force would play each map. We had no idea what we would be up against. There were also some SSRs which were known only to your side, such as BAZ were recorded by the unit possessing it. When Rick Troha's King Tiger moved within two hexes of my squad and game me a turret only side shot, I asked him to hold on for a second. When he asked if my squad had a BAZ, I decided, I'd better take the shot. I'm not sure if Rick ever recovered from me smokin' it.

I like the idea of a scenario either having a Chinese menu(one from column A, 2 from column B, etc.) or 6(or 3 or 4) similar OBs per side chosen or randomly decided; secretly. Such a scenario would have 36 permutaions(whatever that means) with plenty of replay value. Victory Conditions could also be somewhat obscured from both players and would only be revealed at the scenario's end when each side's OB was revealed & compared. You would know your VC are 6 of the 36 but not totally sure of which one it is.

One problem I see with Rob's idea(because of a small sample group) is a side might possibly lose if they get some bad DRs between the scenarios such as being totally depleted, no leaders, etc. A pre-set group of cards might better address this than dr & DR(most which are secret in CGs anyway).
 

rdw5150

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"What about Pete Schilling's mini-cg's from Journals 3 & 5?"

If I remember correctly, you did not buy alll your forces, just a small part of them.

I think Robert's idea is great, but I also agree that Play Testing would be a bear!

Peace

Roger
 

2 Bit Bill

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Nikon ran a DYOs at Michicon and NOWSCON which already had the raity factors determined.
McGrath was like Capt. Strandsky in that one. "How do I reload! How do I reload"! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 

WaterRabbit

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Yes this system exists -- it has been published in Chapter H and it is called DYO. :)

If a person likes DYO, then this system isn't needed. If a person doesn't like DYO, then they will probably pass on this idea.
 

Will Fleming

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LOL, who is Pete Schilling?

I like a bit of selection--similar to some of the Shelling scenarios mentioned, but on outright buys of significant variance and making up nearly all of the forces, I think that will make for a lot of unbalanced, non-fun playings.

If one side just makes the wrong choice or just guesses wrong, he will be at a significant advantage.

I am sure there is a market for this, so put out a scenario pack like that and see how the community receives it.
 
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