Scenario 1 La Drang Campaign

[z1812]

Hi All,

I just finished the 1st Scenario in the La Drang Campaign set. Very enjoyable and my first attempt.

My Attack helos were directed in first (with hide on contact orders) to scout
out the "hot" area.

Reconnaissance indicated a PAVN force moving towards X-ray from the west. Immediately I committed 2 companies to be inserted at LZ X-Ray. Upon dismounting 1 fire team was lost and a Helo damaged. My attack helos took care of the intruders.

My companies formed a defensive line(west edge of LZ-Xray) against the advancing OPFOR.

I wanted to wait a while and scout before committing the other 2 companies.

In the meantime the PAVN were moving closer. I set up massive open linear bombardments and waited. Patience and artillery paid off. The first and second waves of NV troops took very heavy casualties.

I committed my 2 waiting companies and unloaded one to support an attack on a potential PAVN southern advance. The other was inserted as a central reserve for LZ-Xray.

The NVA western attack was starting to generate firefights and so the attack helos were committed. Combined fire from infantry and helos supported by mortar fire destroyed the PAVN attack.

I then started a sweep of area LIMA with 2 companies of infantry and 2 attack helos set to advance with overwatch. 1 small enemy group was encountered and dispatched easily.

While more friendly re-inforcements were awaiting insertion orders, a message of victory appeared. Apparenty the OPFOR were no longer able to complete their mission as they had suffered too many casualties.

I credit helo recon and artillery for my success. By far and probably up to 80 per cent of damage was caused by artillery. For my part, I only lost the 1 fire team already mentioned and minor damage to 1 helocopter. This seemed almost a miracle to me. Although I enjoyed the scenario immensely I wondered if it was too easy. Perhaps I am just a natural commander..........Probaby not. It took me 4 tries to complete JRTC 2. : )
The other thing I wondered about was the U.S. attack helos. I used them aggresively and with impunity quite close to the enemy. They did not want to fire unless they were very, very close. However none became damaged or destroyed. Should that be?

In any case AATF is a great game and I am reccommending it to my wargame friends as one they should have. Hope you enjoyed the informal AAR.

Regards John

 

[Pat Proctor]

Great AAR. I am glad you are enjoying the game.

I credit helo recon and artillery for my success. By far and probably up to 80 per cent of damage was caused by artillery. For my part, I only lost the 1 fire team already mentioned and minor damage to 1 helocopter. This seemed almost a miracle to me. Although I enjoyed the scenario immensely I wondered if it was too easy. Perhaps I am just a natural commander..........Probaby not. It took me 4 tries to complete JRTC 2. : )

JRTC is harder than real battles. It is by design. The idea is to make the training hard so real wars are easy by comparison.

All of that having been said, I will take a look at the helo pKs. Did the infantry shoot at your helos and just not kill?

 

[z1812]

H Pat,

Thanks for taking the time to read my post.

Yes the NVA were shooting at the attack helocopters but not very much and without gusto. In JRTC 1 and 2 you really have to watch your helos as enemy infantry will destroy them if you are not careful.

The game is saved at a few junctures so I will test it later by having the attack helos loiter over the enemy. I will post afterwards.

Regards John

 

[z1812]

Hi Pat,

I have tested by flying my attack helos right on top of the advancing NVA and leaving them there as sitting ducks. The NVA did not fire once at the Helos.

Then I moved my loaded transport helos on top of the advancing NVA. The NVA still did not fire a shot at them.

Oddly enough the Transport Helos killed more NVA with their fire than did the attack helos.

When my experiment ended no U.S. helos were shot at. I let all of the transport helos, and 2 of the attack helos empty their ammo and only 2 NVA fire teams were killed.

I have included a screen shot of the transport helos sitting on top of the enemy.

Regards John

 

[SoopSandwich]

This seems very odd. This did not happen with me during BETA testing. I had plenty of choppers shot down!


Pat, I will give this scenario another try and see what happens....

 

[Pat Proctor]

I'm on it.

I HATE BUGS

 

[z1812]

Hi Pat,

As I play through the scenarios I will let you know if I find any other "oddities".

Regards John

 

[CPangracs]

I think the issue is that there are no weapons in the database involved in Ia Drang 1 that will hurt the hueys. The AK-47 is the prevalent weapon, and it is set at 0 pK, as are the RPG-2s, so they don't engage. The DShK, the RPD and the other MG's do, but they don't show until the second mission. This is VERY evident, because they light-up every chopper in a 1 km radius quite well in Ia Drang 2.

The answers are:

- Add some MG teams with the appropriate weapons to the first scenario.

or

- Add a pK to all of those AK's, and NOTHING survives. Even with a pK of 1, you will lose most of those choppers if they are in range!

I also suggest a read-through of the initial landing at LZ-Xray and weather or not they were even engaged by MG fire. IIRC, the VC didn't even have MG's in the area, and it wasn't considered a "hot" LZ, but I could be mistaken.

 

[eds]

Curt,
What do you think about the attack hueys kills with the rocket pods, is it about right? I too only managed to destroy about 2 teams with them. In the end i was using them more as airial spotters for the artillery.
I'm pretty sure you are right as well about the LZ not being hot for the initial landings. The AAR from the man that was there that comes with the game is a very interesting read.

 

[Pat Proctor]

Rockets are only slightly effective in wooded areas, due to premature detonation in trees. I think the pKs reflect that.

 

[JamesBailey]

z1812-
nice write-up and nice work on XRAY. It felt like an easy mission because you used your guns correctly. Try the scenario w/o any IF and see what I mean Good work on those '05s!

RE Hueys and AK fire-
I asked my father, who flew a Huey for the 1st Avn. Bde out of Pleiku '65-'66, if he was aware of any Hueys lost to AK fire. He said NO, but said the cause of all crashes wasn't known. He also said that the most dangerous weapon for a Huey was the NVA 82mm mortar. Apparently, they had an air-burst fuse (I wasn't aware of this, so he might be forgetting details ) that was absolutely deadly on an LZ. They would get a lot more mortar fire than HMG fire on a hot LZ and a mortar was a lot tougher to supress than a HMG, which could be positioned after it started to fire. He said there was not a lot of RPG fire that he remembered.

This makes some sense if you think about it- (1) the performance of the AK at typical engagement ranges against a Huey would be LOW, so not that a 7.62mm AK round couldn't bring down a Huey but it would be tough to hit, (2) the DshK is a very heavy weapon, even on those stupid wheel mount, offering a tough man-portable mobility, and the ammunition was also very heavy (the round is something like 12.7mm by 110mm - how would you like to carry around 200 rounds of those suckers ?!?!).

Pat-
Can AATF handle pK less than 1? I.e. 0.1, such that it takes, on average 1000 AK rounds to bring a Huey down than 100 that is implied by the pK of 1.

 

[CPangracs]

Rockets are only slightly effective in wooded areas, due to premature detonation in trees. I think the pKs reflect that.

Not only that, but the target MUST be directly in front of the huey, and stay there for a specific "time to fire", or else it won't engage. Not much leeway.

Personally, I would use them to suppress while calling in STEEL RAIN!

 

[z1812]

Hi All,

I have started La Drang scenario 2........................5 attack helos are already lost to ground fire. How loud can you shout DAMN!!:blab:

Curt's previous explanation concerning my helicopter experience in scenario 1 is dead on. Thanks for the answer............

Thanks everyone for reading my post and providing feedback and explanations.

Now let me see if I can salvage this situation

Regards John

 

[Pat Proctor]

The engine doesn't handle decimal pKs. But it also measures effectiveness per BURST, not per round. So if the AK fires 6 round bursts in the DB (I don't know the value, I haven't looked) then the listed pK is for the whole 6 rounds. 1 in 1000 rounds is > .5% for a 6 round burst, so I would round to 1.

 

[JamesBailey]

Thanks Pat. That makes sense and sounds good. Good thing to know about AATF.