SASL: ENEMY S? activation by FRIENDLY HIP units.

G. K. Zhukov

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Hi folks. :D I am new to this forum even if I am and old hand (and a rather rusty one) regarding ASL. Nowadays I only have time to play SASL using VASL and SALSA II programs... :roll:

The thing is that I just started my Russian 1941 SASL campaign and I am already stuck after constant references to the rulebook with no success. :(

I am the defender in the first scenario of the campaign. One ENEMY "S?" marker just moved into a woods hex in view and range (4 hexes) of a FRIENDLY HIP stack, using what I understand is non-assault movement. Do I need to reveal my HIP units in order to make an Activation check for the "S?" marker? Will the hidden FRIENDLY units' status change to "concealed" while doing so? Or shall I simply make the Activation check whithout changing the status of my HIP units? :?:

Mind you, this is a Solitaire ASL scenario... :wink:

Thanks very much in advance from the not so frozen steppes of Spain. :D
 

Reepicheep

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G. K. Zhukov said:
I am the defender in the first scenario of the campaign. One ENEMY "S?" marker just moved into a woods hex in view and range (4 hexes) of a FRIENDLY HIP stack, using what I understand is non-assault movement. Do I need to reveal my HIP units in order to make an Activation check for the "S?" marker? Will the hidden FRIENDLY units' status change to "concealed" while doing so? Or shall I simply make the Activation check whithout changing the status of my HIP units? :?:
The S? in advance will activate if it "moves/advances in such a manner that would normally result in its Concealment loss (A12.14) as if it were an Infantry unit".

If you retain HIP status, the S? wouldn't lose concealment (and therefore roll for activiation) since you have to have a unit in LOS to cause concealment loss. So two choices...

1. Do nothing. S? will continue moving and not roll for activation at this point.

2. Momentarily reveal a HIP unit (placing onboard under a "?" counter). This would force the infantry to lose concealment as it moves, therefore to roll for activation.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Reepicheep
 

G. K. Zhukov

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Reepicheep said:
2. Momentarily reveal a HIP unit (placing onboard under a "?" counter). This would force the infantry to lose concealment as it moves, therefore to roll for activation.
Thx, Reepicheep.

That is the point I am missing. Does the HIP stack return to HIP status once the activation attempt is resolved or is the HIP status gone for good if I decide to make the activation roll? Maybe it depends on the appearance of real activated ENEMY units after all?
 

Reepicheep

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G. K. Zhukov said:
That is the point I am missing. Does the HIP stack return to HIP status once the activation attempt is resolved or is the HIP status gone for good if I decide to make the activation roll? Maybe it depends on the appearance of real activated ENEMY units after all?
I'd say it remains onboard, but concealed. It'd be just like in a normal game... if you reveal a HIPster to deny your enemy something, or strip concealment, you can't re-HIP him again if your opponent turns out to have been only moving dummies. Once a HIPster is placed on board, he's on board.
 

Reepicheep

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G. K. Zhukov said:
That makes sense. Thanks!
My pleasure. Actually, I have some SASL questions I've been meaning to post (haven't got around to it yet). Maybe you can answer mine in return! :D
 

Swiftandsure

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I believe the loss of HIP incurred by that situation was put in the rules in the case of a two player game - so that one can check LOS and realty of the spotting.
I personnaly leave the unit HIP when playing SASL - though I know I am ignoring the usual rule - as the need to control that I am not cheating is not present.
I find much more logical that a HIP unit, placed to spot the coming ennemiy, doesn't reveal its position if it sees an enemy...
 

G. K. Zhukov

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Well, seeing someone who does that I sure won't feel guilty of cheating my "adversary". :lol:

Thanks Robin! :D
 

Reepicheep

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Good idea. Maybe I'll do the same. I guess I was temporarily forgetting the rule was intended for face to face games.
 

Swiftandsure

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I believe it is the only rule I consciously twist a little, playing SASL...
I even have hesitated proposing Perry Cocke to add a precision allowing that twist...
SASL can be a place to test some "house rules", as both players being the same one, have the same advice on the proposed "adaptation"... :wink:
 

pzkfw5g

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Personally, I feel the activation rule should be handled somewhat differently: a ? should roll each hex it gets closer to concealed units to check for an activation attempt (7 or less?, then roll for activation) once it gets within the range which would activate it were the friendlies not concealed. This represents the fact that the concealed friendlies are not "known enemy units" while concealed and may, in fact, want to wait until something gets closer before they reveal themselves. This is closer to the situation with FTF opponents where a concealed unit moves in LOS of another concealed enemy unit that chooses to not reveal itself - the moving concealed unit retains concealment until the other guys decide to do something about it.
 

Swiftandsure

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If I remember well, a player may just show one unit in his concealed stack (to prove it is not a dummy one) and leave his stack concealed, unconcealing the enemy units that are making an "unconcealing" action in the LOS of the stack...
 

Reepicheep

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Robin said:
If I remember well, a player may just show one unit in his concealed stack (to prove it is not a dummy one) and leave his stack concealed, unconcealing the enemy units that are making an "unconcealing" action in the LOS of the stack...
Yup... that's exactly how it works.
 

G. K. Zhukov

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...but the problem when you are playing SASL is that there is not such an "other" player.

And that is the cause of some confusion about this rule.
 

Swiftandsure

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... and playing SASL, you don't need to side record your HIP placements, as you don't need to prove them when they appear!
... and when a RE involves rules you do not want to play (e.g. HW, motorcycles, etc) nobody will cry if you roll again on the RE table.
... and when you lose, you can complain against the system, without having to shake hands, trying to be fairplay when your inner being is boiling and about to resign from wargaming definitely. :D
 

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Reepicheep said:
Robin said:
If I remember well, a player may just show one unit in his concealed stack (to prove it is not a dummy one) and leave his stack concealed, unconcealing the enemy units that are making an "unconcealing" action in the LOS of the stack...
Yup... that's exactly how it works.
Yes, that's right. The situation I was referring to was where you may have some dummy stacks and not want to show anything to keep the enemy guessing about your deployment. That happened to me in a DYO recently - some concealed vehicles drove by and I chose to not show anything to make them lose concealment (because I couldn't do anything to them anyway).
 
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