Sad and angry About VASL 6.5.0

Augie

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I am afraid that "Axis/Communist" tab could lead to confusion, after all the Soviets were communist too.
I suggest "Axis/CPVA/KPA OB", which would also couple better with "Allies/UN OB".

Also, if one feels the CPVA rules are cumbersome, I suggest picking up "Rally Point 17 - Special Study II of the Korean War". It has the "CPVA Guide: Organized by Sequence of Play", which can come in very handy.
 
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Spencer Armstrong

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I suggest "Axis/CPVA/KPA OB", which would also couple better with "Allies/UN OB".

Also, if one feels the CPVA rules are cumbersome, I suggest picking up "Rally Point 17 - Special Study II of the Korean War". It has the "CPVA Guide: Organized by Sequence of Play", which can come in very handy.
Why not just make a single third tab called "FW Forces" for those that aren't just WWII ASL sides with add'l units? It's not like there's any reason we can only have two menus. Excessively long names take up more screen real estate than a third menu with a short name.
 

mgmasl

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Side 1 on even days and Side 2 on odd days vs Side 2 on even days and Side 1 on odd days.
And both sides including female counters..
 

Robin Reeve

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Could we please not start political debates ?
I know that the original post is linked to a historical and political problem, but if we start to list the criminal behaviours of our respective nations (which all have ugly sides) we will just build up hostility between us, where we are at least united by our common hobby.
 

mgmasl

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Could we please not start political debates ?
I know that the original post is linked to a historical and political problem, but if we start to list the criminal behaviours of our respective nations (which all have ugly sides) we will just build up hostility between us, where we are at least united by our common hobby.
Absolutely agree..
 

Jacometti

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I think the simple comment that the Korean War was fought outside the scope of "Axis" and "Allies" should be obvious to anyone.

Not everyone in history who opposed the USA is a fascist.

If you make a American Civil War module for VASL, which side is the Axis ?
 

Gunner Scott

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Hi-

First I do hope both you and your family are safe from coved 19. Secondly, I would not get too wrapped up on where the counters are located. Better then nothing I guess.

As for FW itself, initially I had an ok time playing the scenarios, but would not want to play them again, the terrain rules are very complicated, the CPVA are full of wonky and crazy complications that I think make them somewhat unfun and unplayable. Honestly, who wants to play a scenario where on average your SW are suffering extreme winter effects, Ammo shortage in a scenario?

Now, if you and your opponent are not psychopaths, I would throw out the terrain rules, honestly Steep hills are just brutal to grok, especially when you have ground snow, night or any other factor involved. Get rid of the Command rules perhaps as well as Ammo shortage.

Anyway, stay safe and have fun playing ASL.

Today I noticed that there was a new edition of VASL including FW counters.

Many of my friends are very happy cause they could play FW on VASL. Playing scenarios of CPVA is attractive for us. (not for me, I played one, and will not play any CPVA scenarios any more, there are many funny stupid rules in FW)

But when we opened it we found CPVA counters is in AXIS

Are you kidding me?

I don't want to discuss about history, ASL is a game, not a history course, not a political course.

But is it very difficult to put all FW counter in a new category? There is no Axis and Allied in Korea war. No matter what you called them, they are not Axis nor Allied. Even in FW rules, MMP dose not call them like that.

Why do you (sorry don't know who) put FW counters into Axis OB or Allied OB?

If you don't know how to make it, one of my friends makes a modified VASL 6.5.0 like this. (Don't know how to attach such big file here...)
View attachment 12808
At last, I want to say some words.

ASL is my favorite. I play ASL, translate ASL rulebook, organizing ASL tournament, host local ASL club. Meet many nice new friends.
ASL alway makes me happy.
But today I really feel sad and angry about VASL 6.5.0
ASL is a wargame, not political game.
 

von Marwitz

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ASL is a wargame, not political game.
Then you should not make it one.

What might the Jews think about Mila 18?
What might the Jews (and Germans!) think of scenarios featuring German Dirlewanger units?
What might others think about "No Quarter"?
What might others think about shooting enemy units that guard Prisoners?
What might Italians think about all their 1st Line Troops being 'ASL-losers' with 3-4-6 unbroken and 5 broken morale?
What might Russians think about Commissars shooting friendly units?
What might Germans think about the use of black SS counters?
What might Germans think about the use of SS insignia on counters?

Keep it a game, keep out your national sensitivities.

von Marwitz
 
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Vic Provost

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Amen to that, I come to this hobby to get away from the crap enveloping our 'real' world, which is even worse right now, which is hard to believe but awfully real and sad. Just be good to your fellow man and stay safe and well. Enjoy this game and the people in this hobby, I know I try, every day, Vic.
 

von Marwitz

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I think the simple comment that the Korean War was fought outside the scope of "Axis" and "Allies" should be obvious to anyone.

Not everyone in history who opposed the USA is a fascist.

If you make a American Civil War module for VASL, which side is the Axis ?

Instead of introducing multiple tabs for WW2, Korea, WWI, or whatever cluttering VASL, then you should demand that there be made no difference between "sides" at all. Not three tabs (or whatever number) but a single one.

Or you could just leave things as they are and accept, that ASL is first and foremost a WW2 wargame, less WW1, Korea or anything else and to accept the differentiation of Axis and Allies as mainly functional.

My preference it the last of these three options.

von Marwitz
 

bendizoid

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I don't see any reason not to separate FW counters from WW2, I've been worried about ASL players in some countries, so we should help them avoid problems.
Me to, what countries and what kind of ‘problems’ are those ? I need to know so I can help.
 

R Hooks

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Me to, what countries and what kind of ‘problems’ are those ? I need to know so I can help.
I don't want our players in the western pacific, Arabia, Asia, Africa. central/ south America, or other less or more free countries to be investigated by government because of this game. Not to say officials in other countries don't already treat ASL as some kind of racist warmongering plot, but I think they are restricted to phone taps and whispering about us. Only help IMO is avoid subject.
 

dlazov

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Leave VASL as it is, that is what I say.

It’s primarily a World War Two game.
 

Pitman

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There are some really bizarre replies here to a perfectly legitimate gripe.

VASL probably ought to have a folder for non-World War II combatants in general, which would help solve future problems as well as this one.
 

Michael R

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I like the idea of one tab for all WW2 troops, and another for Korea troops. Following this train of thought leads me to say it might be time to remove all references to Axis and Allied. Side 1 and Side 2 is fine. An input field That VASL would use for each side would be nice. Then it could write U.N. sniper possible instead of Allied sniper possible.
 

Spencer Armstrong

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I like the idea of one tab for all WW2 troops, and another for Korea troops. Following this train of thought leads me to say it might be time to remove all references to Axis and Allied. Side 1 and Side 2 is fine. An input field That VASL would use for each side would be nice. Then it could write U.N. sniper possible instead of Allied sniper possible.
I like the idea of making the two sides label-able, but it seems even simpler to make them generic and if you want to do that, "Attacker" and "Defender" seems like the obvious choice. It literally works for any scenario (please no one mention Jabo!... :p)

That said, I think it's silly to act like Korea is on par with WWII in this system or ever will be. I get that it's in focus right now, but it's one module and a few TPP products. Consolidating its contents into one box's main benefit is actually decluttering the main (read: WWII) parts of VASL, IMO.
 
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