Sad and angry About VASL 6.5.0

Zhen Wang

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Today I noticed that there was a new edition of VASL including FW counters.

Many of my friends are very happy cause they could play FW on VASL. Playing scenarios of CPVA is attractive for us. (not for me, I played one, and will not play any CPVA scenarios any more, there are many funny stupid rules in FW)

But when we opened it we found CPVA counters is in AXIS

Are you kidding me?

I don't want to discuss about history, ASL is a game, not a history course, not a political course.

But is it very difficult to put all FW counter in a new category? There is no Axis and Allied in Korea war. No matter what you called them, they are not Axis nor Allied. Even in FW rules, MMP dose not call them like that.

Why do you (sorry don't know who) put FW counters into Axis OB or Allied OB?

If you don't know how to make it, one of my friends makes a modified VASL 6.5.0 like this. (Don't know how to attach such big file here...)
12808
At last, I want to say some words.

ASL is my favorite. I play ASL, translate ASL rulebook, organizing ASL tournament, host local ASL club. Meet many nice new friends.
ASL alway makes me happy.
But today I really feel sad and angry about VASL 6.5.0
ASL is a wargame, not political game.
 

Mister T

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As an attempt to put things into perspective, for a basic American, everyone who oppose American troops should be bundled into the "bad guys" category. That's probably why they did it, without too much thought however. 😀

I would support the separation of FW counters from the WW2 counters in VASL. Your suggestion seems fair.
 

Sparafucil3

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As an attempt to put things into perspective, for a basic American, everyone who oppose American troops should be bundled into the "bad guys" category. That's probably why they did it, without too much thought however. 😀

I would support the separation of FW counters from the WW2 counters in VASL. Your suggestion seems fair.
I'll take unfounded assumptions for $1000 Alex. According to the Git developers page for VASL, the team of volunteers is multi-national.

@Zhen Wang I suggest you have the person who developed the code you demonstrated above ask someone on the VASL developers site to integrate the code into the base game. I doubt there was any political intent or motivation to what they did. It was just easier to do given all the counter work that went into it. I am sure they would consider it and probably be happy to have someone new join the team. Caveat: I am not a VASL developer so I cannot speak for them. Best of luck. -- jim
 

General Mayhem

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Having a separate FW OB tab might cause problems with some Vasl functionality. Off the top of my head Axis and Allied Sniper activation numbers springs to mind. Does it really matter? They are just words. I just did a complete order of battle for the Aran Israeli wars as a Vasl extension - I listed the Israelis as Allied and the Arabs as Axis - nothing more than ease of production.
 

Vinnie

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I can sympathise with the hurt. It is hard for us in the West to understand the evils committed by the Japanese axis forces in China.
I very much doubt there was any malicious intent in the vasl elves but this just goes to show that our unthinking actions can cause real (and justified) offence to others.
 

M.Koch

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What exactly is funny and stupid about the rules? Serious question, no hidden sarcasm here.
 
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Robin Reeve

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I would plead for a separate folder for the FW units, as the Axis and Allied categories are void for Korea.
Would UNO and Communist categories work better?
I believe that tagging the sniper DR to more than simply Axis or Allied would even be good for WW2, as some nations changed sides during the conflict - not speaking of factions within a nation, such as Fascist Italians vs Republican Italians, GMD vs Communist Chinese, Fascist Hungarians vs Soviet equipped Hungarians, Free French vs Vichy, etc.

As a general remark the "Info" menu could be rethought, as only the SAN values are useful.
One could add Booby Traps, Rain/Snow, and other effects linked to DRs which would be less generic than the cower, etc. ones.

The Turn marker could also exist for every possible nationality.

But I have no knowledge of the way the modules are programmed, so I may be suggesting impossible or too complicated improvements - apologies to the VASL programmers who have been doing a tremendous job up to now (and who I believe had no evil intention at the origin of the problem which started this thread).
 

TopT

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Today I noticed that there was a new edition of VASL including FW counters.

Many of my friends are very happy cause they could play FW on VASL. Playing scenarios of CPVA is attractive for us. (not for me, I played one, and will not play any CPVA scenarios any more, there are many funny stupid rules in FW)
I also do not think that there was any political message in any of the decisions made about placing them in the Axis folder except for ease of coding.

What are some of the funny rules in FW that you disagree with? The design effect is to try and get some of the Nationality character effects, in the confines of the Korean War, with in the rules set. I am very curious as to what you think they got so wrong.
 

Michael R

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In the beta for the KFW counters, the counters were in a separate area, IIRC. One still needed to choose Axis and Allies, however, when assigning the sniper values. That made one decide to classify one side as Allies and one side as Axis. I do not remember hearing any objections over that circumstance.
 

DougRim

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I was the one who integrated the KFW counters into the main VASL module (so that players would have one less extension to worry about) so I made the choice about where to put the counters and how to label them.

But I am not the boss of VASL and we can make changes.

Personally, I would prefer to relabel the "Allied OB" Tab to "Allied/UN OB" and the "Axis OB" tab to "Axis/Communist OB". This would conform to the KFW rules and is an easy change to make.

I would argue against the creation of separate tab(s) for KFW (or any other counter set) as tab proliferation makes it harder to find counters. IMHO. However, anyone who wishes could certainly make those kind of changes to the VASL module. Or they could simply continue to use the KFW extension.

What about Italians and Finns?
 

zgrose

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I would argue against the creation of separate tab(s) for KFW (or any other counter set) as tab proliferation makes it harder to find counters.
Only when the association between the top level items and the searched-for counter is clear. See all the "where are the skis?!?" threads.

There is a shorter option in FW than the 9 character 'Communist'?
 

STAVKA

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The lengths we have to go to to cater for snowflakes
Lol, I do not get it, sad and angry that Chinese Army is called Axis and not Mao's Chinese Communist Peoples Republic Army in a game setting.

The Yankees should have implemented
voice speakers and hurled insults by calling the commies - Axis soldiers that would have killed them in droves.
 

Sparafucil3

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I was the one who integrated the KFW counters into the main VASL module (so that players would have one less extension to worry about) so I made the choice about where to put the counters and how to label them.

But I am not the boss of VASL and we can make changes.

Personally, I would prefer to relabel the "Allied OB" Tab to "Allied/UN OB" and the "Axis OB" tab to "Axis/Communist OB". This would conform to the KFW rules and is an easy change to make.

I would argue against the creation of separate tab(s) for KFW (or any other counter set) as tab proliferation makes it harder to find counters. IMHO. However, anyone who wishes could certainly make those kind of changes to the VASL module. Or they could simply continue to use the KFW extension.

What about Italians and Finns?
Thanks @DougRim for considering the change. I am sure you'll do what you can. -- jim
 

MichalS

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Personally, I would prefer to relabel the "Allied OB" Tab to "Allied/UN OB" and the "Axis OB" tab to "Axis/Communist OB". This would conform to the KFW rules and is an easy change to make.
I am afraid that "Axis/Communist" tab could lead to confusion, after all the Soviets were communist too.
 

STAVKA

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If VASL implement the scenario of the battle between the nations China and Tibet, would it be
Axis vs Allies?
or simple
Red banner army vs to-be-genocide.
 

Tom Morin

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Zhen Wang writes:
"But today I really feel sad and angry about VASL 6.5.0 ASL is a wargame, not political game."

Exactly (as underlined above) so why make this a political argument? It's just a game. The tab issue is functional and not intended to insult anyone.

Please, I hope you can relax and enjoy the game. The VASL guys are doing their best.
 
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