Russians attack

rasmus

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In my game against Bdr.Malette he is currently invading Britain. I have now received the option to declare war on germany with the russians. My question is will a russian attack remove the Barbarossa offensive option from the germans?
 

Wolf

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I believe a Russian DOW does remove the barbarossa TO
 

B-snafu

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I might be wrong----but I think I recall reading a thread or in the briefing that a russian invasion of germany would give the germans reinforcements that they would never otherwise get & boost their production earlier then historically 43' (at least in T3--might be same for Cow). Just something to factor in possibly.
 

Veers

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Alright lads. I can't remember for sure, and the breifing doesn't say. However, since I had this situation happen to me, I think I remember the Barb bonus going away. This is the real advantage of attackign witht he Sovs, as they certainly won't gain any gorund initially.

As well, yes, the Germans do get extra reinforcements if the Sovs attack.
 

Mark Stevens

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Yes, just to confirm that the Germans lose the 'Barbarossa' bonus, but they do get a line of weakish forts across Poland, a couple on the main roads into Rumania and Hungary, plus three armoured and five infantry corps that wouldn't otherwise enter play. The German satellites in the Balkans will mobilise. Both Germans and Russians will also start to receive the extra units that are triggered by the start of the Russo-German war, so don't be surprised. (Be very surprised.)

The idea isn't that these have magically appeared overnight, but that the Germans, intending to invade the UK, have constructed defences and raised extra troops to defend against an expected Soviet attack. However, the Red Army will obviously not be caught with its shorts down as it was in June 1941, hence no 'Barbarossa' bonus, and it has started calling up the extra troops that, in reality, it didn't until then.

You should also note that the USA will probably enter 'early', especially if the Germans are successful in the UK.

You will get a radically different WWII game, but if the Germans have invaded the UK you have anyway.

Be very interested to know how 'Sealion' works out: some players reckon that it's utterly impossible for the Germans to succeed, others that if the Germans get even one large corps ashore in an Axis SP port on the south coast it's all over for the British.
 

rasmus

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The german are currently ashore in Cornwall. Losses are heavy on both sides, but so far the british are holding their ground. I am still undecided as to whether or not I should attack with Russia. i will not reveal my arguments due to an ongoing PSYOP.:D
 

leehunt27

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A Russian DOW on the Axis on the Allied player terms is a game changer. Even with the Axis reinforcements and forts other posters mentioned, the Allies get a huge advantage in avoiding the Barbarossa attack and attaining the initiative. In my game against Serge i got the Russian DOW after the Axis took Ankara in Turkey, and the German panzers never even got past Smolensk let alone near the Dneipr down south. Now its May 1944 and American troops are in France & Vienna, the Russians have taken Poland and British troops landed in Denmark.
Its fascinating because nobody believed Hitler's excuse for invading Germany (to pre-empt an attack from Stalin) but it turned out to be true after Russian archives were released in the 90's. So Germany and Russia almost HAVE to go to war, because each is such a great threat to the other. Who attacks, or decides to fight, first has a large advantage it seems and this scenario does a great job of modelling that.
 

rasmus

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A Russian DOW on the Axis on the Allied player terms is a game changer. Even with the Axis reinforcements and forts other posters mentioned, the Allies get a huge advantage in avoiding the Barbarossa attack and attaining the initiative. In my game against Serge i got the Russian DOW after the Axis took Ankara in Turkey, and the German panzers never even got past Smolensk let alone near the Dneipr down south. Now its May 1944 and American troops are in France & Vienna, the Russians have taken Poland and British troops landed in Denmark.
Its fascinating because nobody believed Hitler's excuse for invading Germany (to pre-empt an attack from Stalin) but it turned out to be true after Russian archives were released in the 90's. So Germany and Russia almost HAVE to go to war, because each is such a great threat to the other. Who attacks, or decides to fight, first has a large advantage it seems and this scenario does a great job of modelling that.
I took the chance and DOWed germany. The result will be forthcoming. I do not expect miracles.
 

Veers

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I took the chance and DOWed germany. The result will be forthcoming. I do not expect miracles.
Do not attempt any grand advance. Go as far forward as you can until you encournter German resistance, then reposition to take advantage of the best defensive terrain and prepare for a less serious, but still dangerous, German assault into the Soviet Union. (Unless, of course, you have totally caught the German player off guard with your DoW...).
 

rasmus

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Do not attempt any grand advance. Go as far forward as you can until you encournter German resistance, then reposition to take advantage of the best defensive terrain and prepare for a less serious, but still dangerous, German assault into the Soviet Union. (Unless, of course, you have totally caught the German player off guard with your DoW...).
I was indeed planning to be cautious. Spoiling attacks, maybe whacking a few minors and otherwise lying low, would be my plan.
 

leehunt27

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The Soviet DOW on Germany was for me a home run. My opponent was pretty much on the defensive after that- and never took an inch of Soviet ground. He took over Egypt and the middle east but was pushed out and fought defensively in Poland till now. Unfortunately there was no "Stalingrad" either, and the march from the Oder to Berlin has taken me about 5 months in the game!!! Brutal bloody slog against a smart German opponent...
 

B-snafu

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So it would seem that if all possible--do not do anything as the Axis to give the Soviets a chance to attack Germany before Historic times. The loss of the Barb option is probably the most painfull result--just two turns attacking the Russians without it in a current game has showed me how painful a game will be without it.
 
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