RUN FORREST RUN

[Stewart]

Unit in P5 Routs.
He selects P7 as initial rout destination.
Sees unit in R6 upon going into O6 as the first hex of his rout.
Unit then routs to N8

Legal or not?
WHY?

 

[STAVKA]

Not legal. after entering hex O6 (and interdicted from P4) a now legal rout destination is declared, you have the following 3 hexes to choose between: M6, N5 or O7 (may not Low Crawl to N6).

 

[Stewart]

Thank you Stavka
1st answer in 47 views.
This is a STANDARD routing situation.
How can he choose M6 over N5? N5 was still further away from the starting hex of routing..

Could he rout to N8 if M6 was OG?

 

[aloha_brian]

The unit may not choose a new rout destination. A10.51 Direction; near the end of the paragraph. A new destination is chosen only if prevented from reaching its current destination by a enemy newly in LOS. Nothing else allows a new destination.
"If a newly-Known enemy unit prevents this, a new destination is re-figured from that point. "

 

[nekengren2]

The routing unit moves upstairs.
Every other path can be Interdicted. Assuming R4 can see P6.
If no upstairs is available then surrender.

 

[Martin Mayers]

The routing unit moves upstairs.
Every other path can be Interdicted. Assuming R4 can see P6.
If no upstairs is available then surrender.

If upstairs is available, even if the path for routing is interdictable, he can still ignore upstairs.

Plus P6 is orchard/road hex...so not interdictable anyhow.

 

[nekengren2]

You have to Surrender if all rout paths are interdictable and you are adjacent.
Only No Quarter would change this.
P6 is open ground. Only hindrance for fire THROUGH.

 

[Martin Mayers]

You have to Surrender if all rout paths are interdictable and you are adjacent.
Only No Quarter would change this.
P6 is open ground. Only hindrance for fire THROUGH.

Sorry mate. It's NOT Open Ground. It would NOT be -1 FFMO for a shot into the hex (even though no TEM applies to that shot).

0 TEM does not automatically = Open Ground

This may well be one of those "I've been playing that wrong for so long" moments for you

 

[Jeff Sewall]

Could he rout to N8 if M6 was OG?

Yes, because when figuring the new rout destination from O6, he can ignore N5 and O7 as rout destinations since they are equidistant from KEU.

 

[Larry]

The rout options are:

1. P5 - Rout to level 1. Ignorable because it is in the same building and no farther away in hexes from KEU. Once the unit has a legal rout, the possibility of surrender is null.
2. N5 - takes interdiction in O6 but legal. Could continue to M6.
3. O7 - takes interdiction in O6 but legal. Avoids interdiction in P6 (not OG, as Martin points out). Could continue to level 1 but not P7 as closer to KEU in R6.
4. P7 - through P6 without interdiction. Could continue to level 1, O7 (including O7 level 1), and Q8 (if a building/woods) as equidistant but not closer to KEU in R5 and R6.

 

[Martin Mayers]

Yes, because when figuring the new rout destination from O6, he can ignore N5 and O7 as rout destinations since they are equidistant from KEU.

Doesn't work like that. You don't recalculate every hex.

You choose a target hex within the rules allowed AT THE START OF ITS ROUT. You then rout to that target hex. You can change direction to do so but not in a manner in which would mean you can no longer get to that target hex.

Note the wording pertaining to this..."AS LONG AS IT REACHES THAT HEX etc.. etc." As long as it reaches that hex it can do certain stuff but not in a way which makes it unable to reach that originally chosen hex.

 

[Larry]

When the unit routs to O6 as the long route to P7, the pinned unit in R6 prevents completion of that rout as the broken unit will move closer to R6.

From O6, O7 is equidistant to R6 and ignorable but legal.
From O6, N5 is equidistant to R4 and ignorable but legal.
If the broken unit ignores O7 and N5, the destination is M5, 4 MF from O6.
N8 is further away than M6. If M6 is OG or not rally terrain, then the re-figured rout could be O8.

Messy.

 

[Larry]

A10.51 is key:

At the start of its RtPh, a routing unit must designate its destination
and must attempt to reach it during that RtPh [EXC: if using Low Crawl]. If a
newly-Known enemy unit prevents this, a new destination is re-figured
from that point.

 

[Robin Reeve]

When the unit routs to O6 as the long route to P7, the pinned unit in R6 prevents completion of that rout as the broken unit will move closer to R6.

The route through P6 to P7 is possible and allowed.
The long route through O6 must be ignored, as it disallows to reach the rout objective.

 

[Jeff Sewall]

Doesn't work like that. You don't recalculate every hex.

You choose a target hex within the rules allowed AT THE START OF ITS ROUT. You then rout to that target hex. You can change direction to do so but not in a manner in which would mean you can no longer get to that target hex.

Note the wording pertaining to this..."AS LONG AS IT REACHES THAT HEX etc.. etc." As long as it reaches that hex it can do certain stuff but not in a way which makes it unable to reach that originally chosen hex.

But it was unable to rout to its originally chosen target hex due to coming within LOS of a previously unknown enemy unit. So you refigure its new rout destination from its current hex just as if it was starting there. A10.51 line 23: "If a newly-Known enemy unit prevents this, a new destination is re-figured from that point."

 

[Doug Leslie]

A10.51...At the start of its RtPh, a routing unit must designate its destination and must attempt to reach it during that RtPh ...

The routing unit here is not attempting to reach P7 if it chooses to rout via O6 as opposed to P6.
This implies a degree of clairvoyance on the part of the routing unit but there is precedent for this eg routing to the nearest non-ignorable hex even if it is out of LOS or surrendering when the rout path would result in interdiction by a known enemy unit that is out of LOS when the rout begins.

 

[Doug Leslie]

But it was unable to rout to its originally chosen target hex due to coming within LOS of a previously unknown enemy unit. So you refigure its new rout destination from its current hex just as if it was starting there. A10.51 line 23: "If a newly-Known enemy unit prevents this, a new destination is re-figured from that point."

It is able to rout to the originally chosen target hex provided that it doesn't deliberately take a route that makes this impossible. All that it has to do is rout through P6.

 

[Martin Mayers]

But it was unable to rout to its originally chosen target hex due to coming within LOS of a previously unknown enemy unit. So you refigure its new rout destination from its current hex just as if it was starting there. A10.51 line 23: "If a newly-Known enemy unit prevents this, a new destination is re-figured from that point."

I'm not betting my house on this...be interested to hear what Klas has to say.

But my take is you make the calculation right at the start of the units rout. You work out his options then say "THAT HEX is where it's routing to". You then rout to it by choosing a route which was legitimate at the start of the rout phase. Reference the rules "as long as it reaches THAT hex it can etc. etc."

Also. "Newly-Known enemy unit". Wouldn't (Newly-)Known Enemy Unit as prescribed within the Index be capitalised? Doesn't Newly-Known enemy unit mean that within the context of the English language rather than within the context of the ASL rules? I think all Indexed rules are capitalised aren't they ??

Isn't this just referencing units that come out of hiding rather than 'KEUs' ??

Note, I'm asking the question here. I really am not 100% sure.

 

[Doug Leslie]

The unit in R6 is known. It is right there under the pin counter. If it were concealed, that would be a different matter: it would only affect the routing unit at the point when it dropped concealment.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

The unit in R6 is not Known (since it's out of LOS) to the broken unit when it starts it rout.