Rule check

Sparafucil3

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In a game today I fired a 5/8" 81mm mortar at a British Wasp. I would like to make sure I resolved this correctly so I am asking for a sanity check.

As the fire was AREA fire I decided that the base TH roll was only modified by any intervening Hinderances. As there were none it was a straight TH roll. I rolled low enough to hit.

For the effect, I determine that a Wasp is an OT vehicle so the crew suffered an 8 +2 roll. I also determined that per C1.55 the Wasp would be eliminated on a KIA roll and shocked/immobilaized on a K/# or 1 greater than a K/# result. It recieved a -1 modifier on the TK/shock/immob roll due to having no armor factors greater or equal to 4. I missed an additional -1 for OT.

So the final results were:

Crew takes an 8 +2. AFV is killed on 4 or less (flamed on a 2), shocked/immob on a 6 or less.

Did I resolve this correctly?

The good thing about all these questions is that it means I am playing. :D For those wondering, the effect roll was a 5,5 so ne. The Wasp went on to roll the FT attack and rolled a 6,5 for X'ing the MA and a recall. I like to think they were scared of the mortart :devil:
 

bprobst

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There may not have been any hindrances, but the +2 Size DRM of the Wasp modifies the TH DR. Also, if the Wasp was classed as a moving target there'd be another +2 for that. Other modifiers can potentially apply depending on the exact circumstances. So it's not a "straight TH roll".

The fire is not "AREA fire" unless the target is concealed. The fire is "Area Target Type", a very different thing altogether. Don't mix your terms or you'll just end up muddled.

Assuming that you did successfully hit, an 8 +2 attack vs. the CE crew is correct, unless the MTR had a height advantage and/or airburst was applicable (see D6.61).

Against the vehicle, it burns on a Original DR of 3 or less [because it modifies to 1 or less, which is <= 1/2 of the DR needed for the K result (3)]. However the Wasp has Red CS so it will actually burn on an Original DR of 4 or less! However, an original DR of 4 is modified to a 2; that equals the minimum KIA result which according to the AFV destruction table is only an automatic Shock or Immobilisation result ... C1.55 doesn't mention this (grr) but it is in C7.41 and C7.5. Note that TEM, if any, also applies to this DR. I think that the Shock/Immobilisation result takes precedence over the burning wreck result (because the latter only modifies the chance of burning, not the chance of wrecking).
 

Sparafucil3

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I got a clarification from another VASL player on the TH process. I did in fact do it wrong. Now I am muddled on what you said the effect was. Disregarding the red CS number for a minute. An 81mm attacks on the 8 column. A Wasp is OT and has no AF >=4. According to C1.55 these each are eligible for a -1 DRM on the effect roll. So in the end the crew takes an 8 +2 (collateral?) attack. Per C1.55, the AFV is immob/shocked on a K/# or 1 > K/#. So the vehicle is immob/shocked on an original 5/6 (a modified 3/4). It is immobilized on an original 4 (a modified 2 which exactly equals the first KIA), knocked out as an original 3 or less (modified 1 or less). Anything that knocks it out, is by virtue of the fact the TK # is 2, is always going to flame it. Is that correct? Thanks again for the help. -- jim
 

Larry

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In cross-checking the cards and the rules, V.1 of the ASLRB has a discrepancy, or rather vice versa. The QDRC and the blue cards have the KIA reference. The C7.7 table does not reference KIA but only TK#, K, and CCV as the relevant guides. The QDRC and the blue cards are wrong. It is impossible to have both =K and =KIA on the same vehicle. Similarly <K and =KIA can in fact coincide, but the QDRC and blue card equating the two does not make sense.

I found no resolution of this in the published QA compilations. Is the consensus to play the 7.7 table in the book as correct, the K# is the one that matters, and that the QDRC is wrong?

:dead:
 

apbills

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Not to muddle this, but lets get our terminology correct.

On the A7.7 AFV Destruction Table, we are talking about FINAL EFFECT DR. So, for this situation, K on the 8 table is a 3. That is the base you want to compare against, and it never changes.
TO Burn, you need <= half of that, or a 1.
To Elim you need < 3, or a 2
To Im/Shock you need = or 1 greater, so a 3 or 4

All of these are Final DR.

In your case, the Original DR is modified by a -2 for the C1.55 IFT DRMs, AF and OT.

So, on a 5 or 6 Original DR, you will have a Final DR of 3 or 4, so an Im/Sh result.
On an original 4 you will have a Final DR of 2, so Elim.
On an original 3 or less you will have a final DR of 1, so Burn.

In addition, for determining Burn you have another -1 mod, which means that if you Eliminate it, you get the -1 mod to determine if it burns. In this case that means an original 4 DR will get the extra -1 for burn determination, making the Final DR a 1, therefore burning the Wasp.

Summary:
Original DR = 5 or 6 = Immob/shock
Original DR <= 4 = Burn

There is no chance to Eliminate the Wasp without burning.
 

apbills

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Larry said:
In cross-checking the cards and the rules, V.1 of the ASLRB has a discrepancy, or rather vice versa. The QDRC and the blue cards have the KIA reference. The C7.7 table does not reference KIA but only TK#, K, and CCV as the relevant guides. The QDRC and the blue cards are wrong. It is impossible to have both =K and =KIA on the same vehicle. Similarly <K and =KIA can in fact coincide, but the QDRC and blue card equating the two does not make sense.

I found no resolution of this in the published QA compilations. Is the consensus to play the 7.7 table in the book as correct, the K# is the one that matters, and that the QDRC is wrong?

:dead:
They must have fixed in in v2, my QDRC has the Indirect Fire column in red, which corresponds to the /K column on the FInal Effects DR. Will have to dig out my old QDRC to see what is what on that, but I thoguht that maybe it was only black and white, so you had to understand the chart from the book in order to figure out which columns were meant for the K and which for the KIA.
 

Sparafucil3

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Thanks everyone. This was a big help and really straightened out some rules that were floating around in my head.
 

Larry

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Ah ... now the colors are beginning to make sense.

my QDRC has the Indirect Fire column in red, which corresponds to the /K column on the FInal Effects DR.
That is true on the blue card but not the QDRC. Now it makes sense.
 
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