rubbled building control

[ecz]

in scenario A 93 the VC says that the attacker must control 6 of the 7 multi-hex buildings.

A very peculiar SSR says that all building hexes could be rubbled before setup rolling a DR < 7 and that a rubbled hex is still part of its building per VC puposes.

Question:
1) is any Rubble hex automatically controlled like other building hexes when a MMC enters an empty building partially rubbled ? or, as I think, 2) is it necessary any rubble hex is phisycally occupied not being anymore a building hex? ( except for VC purposes).

using the diagram below to clarify:
1) does the 458 entering just one hex, control the whole building?

And again, 3) if the two hex rowhouse, partially rubbled and empty, is controlled by the enemy, is it enough to deny the building to the opponent just control the rubble hex, possibly with an AFV?

 

[jrv]

Just from your description I would say the hex is treated as a normal building hex for control purposes, i.e. entry of the rubble is just as good as entry of a building hex. Depending on the text I might change my mind if I saw the actual rule.

JR

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Just from your description I would say the hex is treated as a normal building hex for control purposes, i.e. entry of the rubble is just as good as entry of a building hex. Depending on the text I might change my mind if I saw the actual rule.

VICTORY CONDITIONS: The British win if they Control six of multi-hex buildings (see SSR 2 and 3) at the end of any Game Turn.

2. All buildings are single-story stone structures. Connected Rowhouses are considered one building for victory purposes, but otherwise are treated as Rowhouses.

3. Prior to setup, the British must make one DR for every building hex on/between hexrows Q and EE. A DR ≤ 6 reduces that building hex to rubble; such a rubbled hex is still considered part of its building for victory condition purposes.

 

[Eagle4ty]

It seems as if Rubble has in no way changed the definition of a building for VC purposes (A26.1) but has only altered B24.1. Therefore, I'm with JR here that control of a rubbled hex of an otherwise vacant building would confer control of that building to the side controlling the Rubble. As for a vehicle being ale to control the building by controlling the Rubble Location though, the 3rd paragraph of A26.11 seems to still be in effect which precludes such an event (an assumption only though, as I am not looking at the scenario that may have an additional SSR(s):study: modifying this).

 

[jrv]

It seems as if Rubble has in no way changed the definition of a building for VC purposes (A26.1) but has only altered B24.1. Therefore, I'm with JR here that control of a rubbled hex of an otherwise vacant building would confer control of that building to the side controlling the Rubble. As for a vehicle being ale to control the building by controlling the Rubble Location though, the 3rd paragraph of A26.11 seems to still be in effect which precludes such an event (an assumption only though, as I am not looking at the scenario that may have an additional SSR(s):study: modifying this).

Controlling a building and controlling a location have nothing to do with each other. Vehicles may control building locations even though they are unable to control the building itself, even without the additional change of rubble being treated as building. In fact a vehicle may control all hexes and locations of a building yet still may not control the building, per A26.11.

JR

 

[ecz]

jrv this is how we played ( rubble = building for ANY purpose) but I'm not sure it is right because the wording of the SSR in my opinion just says that Rubble must still be controlled because part of the building for VC purposes ( i.e. you must control the building hexes AND any Rubble part of it) , but does NOT say that the rubble are like buildings for control, or movement, or Rally purposes, for example. (i.e. you must control each rubble one by one since they are not technically buildings, and then even a AFV is good).

 

[jrv]

The VC use building control. In building control you do not have to control all locations/hexes within the building. Controlling a rubble hex or location (or for that matter, building hex or location) has no effect that I can see on the VC, as hex/location control are not mentioned in the VC. If a building has, say, three hexes, the middle hex is rubbled, and one side gains control of the (still-three-hex by SSR) building by entering one hex at the end, I don't see any reason in the VC that the side would then have to do anything more to the other two hexes, just as when there is no rubble. It is true that the middle hex and location are not controlled by that side, but that would also be true if the building were not rubbled. The building would still be controlled despite the fact two out of the three hexes and many (up to eight in a two-level building) locations were not controlled. I think that because the VC use building control, that for purposes of building control the rubble is equivalent to building. I don't see any reason to believe that any other behavior of buildings carries over to rubble, i.e. rubble is not rally terrain nor does it cost two MF to enter. But I think it's reasonable to conclude that the use of "victory purposes" is intended to alter the behavior of rubble for building control, which is what the VC are.

JR

 

[ecz]

I think they should have said " such a rubbled hex is still considered part of its building for "control" purposes" that includes also the "victory condition" purposes and avoids any doubt, but may be it's a matter of language that I read differently because not native English speaker.

 

[jrv]

I think they should have said " such a rubbled hex is still considered part of its building for "control" purposes" that includes also the "victory condition" purposes and avoids any doubt, but may be it's a matter of language that I read differently because not native English speaker.

There is a certain awkwardness in the phrasing, but it's hard to imagine what else might have been meant. You can't "building control" a rubble hex unless the rubble hex is considered part of a building. Once it is part of the building, it participates for control purposes with the rest of the building.

JR

 

[Stewart]

Subsequent rubbled hexes however?
It only states SUCH hexes rubbled by the DR, not by other means.
Necro