Rubble Buildings

[Bocko]

Ok...odd question but I have my group wants an answer.

Can ordnance fire including mortars (infantry fire type and/or area fire type) at a building with no units inorder to try to rubble the building?

Thanks
Chris B

 

[Brian W]

Can ordnance fire including mortars (infantry fire type and/or area fire type) at a building with no units inorder to try to rubble the building?

Sure can; 1/2" acq is NA and I think you would have to include the +2 case K DRM, so it can be difficult to get a hit.

 

[Bocko]

Can ordnance fire including mortars (infantry fire type and/or area fire type) at a building with no units inorder to try to rubble the building?

Sure can; 1/2" acq is NA and I think you would have to include the +2 case K DRM, so it can be difficult to get a hit.

So you are saying that you can infantry fire type but one cannot acq and one has to add +2 to hit? Is the +2 added to the area fire too and you can acq with area fire?

Thanks
Chris B

 

[Robin Reeve]

Not sure K TH modif applies (EXC to see if you have hit a HIP unit).

 

[Brian W]

Not sure K TH modif applies (EXC to see if you have hit a HIP unit).

Hmm, I think you are right. C3.41 says that a building can be the target of an ITT/ATT attack. I had thought that only units could be targets and that a hit would have to be attained against such a target before it could affect terrain. I have misplayed that for many years.

 

[Bocko]

Not sure K TH modif applies (EXC to see if you have hit a HIP unit).

Hmm, I think you are right. C3.41 says that a building can be the target of an ITT/ATT attack. I had thought that only units could be targets and that a hit would have to be attained against such a target before it could affect terrain. I have misplayed that for many years.

Talk to me Goose (Brian). You got me confused now. Can you sum up the answer to the question?

Thanks
Chris B

 

[Brian W]

Can you sum up the answer to the question?

Ok, the question is: Can ordnance fire at a building to attempt to rubble it even if there are no units in the location/hex?

The answer is yes, but 1/2" acquisition cannot be gained. 5/8" acquisition can be gained and used against an entire hex. There is no Case K +2 modifier against the building, although there will be one against an HIP unit in the target location/hex.

 

[Robin Reeve]

About 1/2" acq...
If one fires on Inf Target Table, but not against a concealed unit, doesn't one leave a 1/2" acq counter?
When a unit marked by a 1/2" acq counter leaves LOS or acquiring firer, the counter remains in hex and can even serve to fire against another unit that comes in the hex. Thus a lone 1/2" counter can exist in a hex.
I believe that when 1/2" counter acquisition is not allowed, it is strictly against concealed targets (but a building does not enter such a category).
The difference between 1/2" and 5/8" acq counters is that the latter acquires the full hex (e.g all levels of a building) and the former only one Location.
I am not sure about my point of view, as I never try to rubble buildings (nor bridges) with ordnance - even with big guns, as they are mostly devoid of interesting ROF, I aim at units and, of course, rejoice if the whole building collapses on them [but that is as a side effect]...

 

[Brian W]

If one fires on Inf Target Table, but not against a concealed unit, doesn't one leave a 1/2" acq counter?

C6.5 is pretty clear about this--it is only when firing at a known enemy unit or bridge that you may place/flip a 1/2" acq. A6.51 goes on to say that 1/2" acq only applies to Known units and bridges.

 

[Robin Reeve]

Thanks! :wink: