Routing & Gullies

[revaddict]

A squad is in Crest status in a gully. Four of the adjacent hexes are Open Ground while the other two are Gully hexes. The squad breaks in the LOS and normal range of an enemy unit. The nearest woods/building hex is, say, four hexes away (the opposite direction of their Crest) also across Open Ground. What happens next?

First, I presume the broken squad is DM and loses Crest status on their way toward the woods/building. But upon losing Crest they are out of LOS of the enemy. Do they have to continute to rout toward the woods/building even though they are no longer in LOS? If they do continue, they will have to cross Open Ground. Can they use Low Crawl even though they have already changed Location?

Any enlightenment would be helpful.

 

[Chris Milne]

NRBH, but I'll give it a go (with numerous questions!)...

Why do they lose Crest status? If it's because they're no longer GO, then they're out of LOS at the start of the RtPh and don't have to rout. Not sure whether you have to be GO to be in Crest status.

In terms of continued routing to the building/woods hex - yes, even if you temporarily lose LOS of the enemy, that hex is still the rout target, and you're still routing.

Low Crawl must be declared before you start routing, I believe.

 

[revaddict]

Chris,

They lose Crest because of where their rout terrain is located. Let me put it this way. They have Crest status on the east side of the hex. The woods are to the west. So to head west they have to leave the Crest first. This puts them out of LOS. Does it also take away the option to Low Crawl since Low Crawl requires all the MF?

 

[da priest]

20.96 BROKEN UNITS: If broken, Crest Infantry must leave their Crest status during the following RtPh.

They don't "lose" Crest Status, they must leave Crest Status during RtPh.

So they can Low Crawl out of Crest, into Gully, or go to Rout Target across the Open Ground and suffer Interdiction. Same as always, nothing unusual.

 

[Chris Milne]

Ron's got it. I remembered that only GO units could claim Crest status, but not exactly what happened to brokies already in Crest.

So, if you rout, you can LC into the depression, or head to the rout target via the depression.

 

[revaddict]

Chris and Ron,

Okay, we agree on that much. Brokies leave Crest using Low Crawl to go INTO the Gully.

My question is: What happens next? In the next RtPh do they have to leave the safety of the Gully and use Low Crawl across Open Ground to head for woods/building? Or can they stay IN the Gully (which in reality would be the smart thing to do--but of course reality is never the basis for an argument about ASL rules).

 

[Hopalong]

Chris and Ron,

Okay, we agree on that much. Brokies leave Crest using Low Crawl to go INTO the Gully.

My question is: What happens next? In the next RtPh do they have to leave the safety of the Gully and use Low Crawl across Open Ground to head for woods/building? Or can they stay IN the Gully (which in reality would be the smart thing to do--but of course reality is never the basis for an argument about ASL rules).

Unless you elect to keep DM, or are still in the LOS of an enemy unit in an otherwise open ground hex, you would lose DM status in the next RPh and therefore would be unable to rout

 

[revaddict]

That's kind of the conclusion I'm coming to. Thanks.

 

[Corporal Kindel]

Broken in crest status

Hello:

Playing scenario SP73 Seregelyes Slug-out and had a unit in crest status in a deep stream hex that broke. I decided to post the question in this thread since it was related to the original post. It was a 6-2-8 squad in crest status in hex 50O2 (A deep stream hex, crest center facing O2/O1). There are German Infantry units in hexes 50M2, 50M3, 50P1 (ADJACENT to the DM 6-2-8), 50Q2, and 50Q3. Basically, without having to post a diagram, these German positions allow only one possible exit location for the DM 6-2-8–-to hex O3 which is a level 2 brush hex in relation to the DM squad in the gully. So, my DM 6-2-8 would have to exit crest status by going INTO the -1 level stream location in its hex {4MF}, then ascend 2 intermediate hill levels {Level 0 ground & Level 1 hill for 2 MF}, and finally enter the Level 2 brush location in Hex 50O3 {4MF}. So, the DM 6-2-8 would have to expend 10 MF total to enter 50O3 {4 + 2 + 4}.

Since a broken unit can't expend more than 6MF as per A10.5 ROUTING (ASLRB v2),:

".... All broken units (including conscripts) other than
wounded SMC have 6 MF for use in the RtPh; this amount
can never be increased ...."

I'm thinking that the unit must surrender, since routing into any other hex will be moving closer/ADJACENT to a keu, as per A20.21 RtPh:

"Any broken Infantry unit during its RtPh that is both
ADJACENT to Known, Good Order armed enemy
Infantry/Cavalry and unable to rout away from it or only
able to rout while being subject to Interdiction or
resorting to Low Crawl (regardless of how it actually
routs or if the possible Interdictor is Known to it),
will surrender to that enemy unit as its prisoner
instead, ..."

The key-phrase being *unable to rout away from it*. I just want to know if anyone is aware of any obscure rule (or Q&A) which allows a rout of one hex at greater than 6MF (rout vs difficult terrain or something like that). I don't think any such rule or Q&A exists, but I just wanted to be sure...

Thanks,
rk

 

[SamB]

The number of MP's he'd expend getting into a building or woods doesn't matter. In the first place, is he required to rout? If so, can he low crawl into the gully without being interdicted? Or does any rout bring him close to the enemy? Are his only options open ground?

As long as he has a -legal- rout path and his only path doesn't suffer interdiction - then I think he routs.

Sam 'Post a picture, it will be easier'

 

[Corporal Kindel]

Low crawl in stream

Hello:

I was thinking about that; the only problem is a unit can't use low crawl into a stream, A10.52:

"...Low Crawl cannot be used to enter Marsh or a Water
Obstacle, or in any stream unless dry."

Yes, the unit is DM & adjacent to a keu, thus is required to rout. And even if the unit could low crawl into the deep stream, from crest status, it would still end up being ADJACENT to the keu in P1. I'm pretty sure a unit with a LOS INTO a gully treats enemy units therein as being in the open for FFMO/Interdiction purposes. I'm not 100% sure if streams fall in-line with this same gully & LOS-INTO-qualification [probably so], if it does I'd guess my 6-2-8 would have to surrender.

I'd post a diagram from my vasl game if I knew how to copy & paste or somehow attach it to my post, but I'm not sure where to look for info on how to do this.

Thanks,
rk

 

[Ole Boe]

Okay, we agree on that much. Brokies leave Crest using Low Crawl to go INTO the Gully.

To me, it looks like this is not allowed. I'm not 100% sure, but it looks illegal - unless the unit was unable to reach woods/building with 6 MF.

The reason is that Low Crawl must bring you closer to the target hex, and I think that means closer in hexes - not only in MF as you do by Low Crawling into the Gully. I.e. the unit using Low Crawl must actually end up closer in hexes to the rout target (if any).

Note the following Q&A:
A10.5 & B27.41 A broken Infantry unit begins its RtPh, able to Low Crawl, in the Base Level of a hex with a capacity-available Foxhole, but outside of that Foxhole. There are no Adjacent KEU. There may or may not be KEU with enough HA to reduce the Foxhole TEM to zero. The hex may or may not be Open Ground. The hex may or may not be under an FFE. The scenario may or may not be Night. The broken unit is within 6 MF of its nearest valid woods/building rout target. May the unit use its RtPh to move INTO that Foxhole (and thus end its RtPh in that same hex, Entrenched)?
A. No. [Letter110]

My question is: What happens next? In the next RtPh do they have to leave the safety of the Gully and use Low Crawl across Open Ground to head for woods/building? Or can they stay IN the Gully (which in reality would be the smart thing to do--but of course reality is never the basis for an argument about ASL rules).

If we assume that it Low Crawled down into the Gully (which it at least could do if there was no woods/building within 6 MF), the following would happen:

In the RPh it could (but didn't have to) remove the DM (A10.62). If it removed it, then next RtPh it had to stay IN the Gully - unless there now is a GO enemy unit within Normal Range and with unrestricted LOS to it, in which case it became DM again (A10.62) and had to rout (A10.6).

If it didn't remove the DM, it can choose to stay or rout in its next RtPh, again unless it is in Open Ground within the Normal Range of a GO enemy unit (A10.6).

 

[Ole Boe]

Unless you elect to keep DM, or are still in the LOS of an enemy unit in an otherwise open ground hex, you would lose DM status in the next RPh and therefore would be unable to rout

Note that the unit could choose to keep the DM status (so as to be able to rout further), since "it is not in a woods/building/pillbox/trench " (A10.62)-