Rout and smoke

Koestler

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Hello,

Please see the attached situation. There is a SMOKE FFE centered on H37 and broken units in I37. What is their fate?

The broken units are ADJACENT to the Vannay 447 in I38, but since there is +7 hindrance between them, the 447 is not a Known unit. Under A10.51, they could thus rout to H37. However, since the 447 is not Known, would they not be required to rout to their building? Would A10.533 than apply by analogy? Am I missing something?
FBCGIQ.png
 

Eagle4ty

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Even though they have no LOS, they are still ADJACENT to a KEU (one that is not concealed {including HIP}) and may not rout (A10.51) [Note the definition of ADJACENT has an exclusion for Smoke]. Therefore, they would be ineligible to rout to H37 or anywhere other than to the 447s as POWs or must be eliminated for FtR.
 

klasmalmstrom

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Even though they have no LOS, they are still ADJACENT to a KEU (one that is not concealed {including HIP}) and may not rout (A10.51) [Note the definition of ADJACENT has an exclusion for Smoke]. Therefore, they would be ineligible to rout to H37 or anywhere other than to the 447s as POWs or must be eliminated for FtR.
Even though they are ADJACENT to the unit in I38, the unit in I38 is not Known since it is out of LOS due to the Smoke.

I.e., it looks bad for the Russians.
 

Koestler

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Thanks for the quick answers.

"Even though they have no LOS, they are still ADJACENT to a KEU"​

What confuses me is that the definition of ADJACENT excepts smoke, but the definition of KEU still requires LOS.

"Even though they are ADJACENT to the unit in I38, the unit in I38 is not Known since it is out of LOS due to the Smoke."​

Suppose that there is a KEU to the right, making I38 ignorable. Would the broken units be allowed to rout through H37? (Not trying so save my units; I am the Hungarian and went after those Russians after I broke them in prep. I may have miscalculated.)
 

jrv

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If these are the only units then the Soviets are not immediately eliminated, but their problem is that they must choose I38 as their rout target. It is the nearest woods/building and in moving to I38 they would not be moving ADJACENT to ADJACENT nor would they be moving toward a Known armed enemy unit. Each unit (routing units move separately) would move into I38 and bounce back. I am not clear what is next, but one of three things happens. First, it is possible the RtPh ends for the unit (similar to A12.15), in which case the unit dies for failure due to the KEU in I36. Second it is possible the unit in I38 becomes Known, in which case a rout from I37 is now impossible because any move would either be toward a KEU or from ADJACENT to ADJACENT of a KEU. Third it is possible that the unit in I38 remains unknown, in which case the unit refigures its rout, and I38 remains the target. I would be interested to know which because it might affect other routs, but in this case it doesn't matter much.

I believe that the move to I38 makes the enemy unit Known per A10.533, but I am not sure.

If I38 were ignorable the unit could rout through H37 assuming nothing it did made the unit in I38 Known.

JR
 
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mgmasl

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Even routing to I38 they may choose a larger route H37 and I38 and Low Crawl to H37.. I think they may stay there because I38 unit is unknown..
 

jrv

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Even routing to I38 they may choose a larger route H37 and I38 and Low Crawl to H37.. I think they may stay there because I38 unit is unknown..
No, even when routing using low crawl they must end closer to their rout target.

JR
 
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jrv

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... per this Q&A:

Q&A said:
A10.51 If a DM broken unit that must rout is within six MF of the nearest woods/building, must it attempt to reach the woods/building in a single RtPh?
A. Yes, unless it uses Low Crawl, but it need not take the shortest route (in hexes/MF) to do so. Even if it uses Low Crawl, however, it must still do so toward that woods/building (i.e., at no time may it increase the hex range between itself and that woods/building, and must end that RtPh closer to it than it was at the start of the phase).
[An92; An95w; An96; Mw]
Nice sleaze attempt, though.

JR
 

mgmasl

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Maybe with the full board and all enemy units placed is possible to discard this house because of enemy units at same range of the broken and I38.. If only those units in the game, it´s clearly eliminated when being bounced back by the just known enemy units upon entry of the building.
 

Jon

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If these are the only units then the Soviets are not immediately eliminated, but their problem is that they must choose I38 as their rout target. It is the nearest woods/building and in moving to I38 they would not be moving ADJACENT to ADJACENT nor would they be moving toward a Known armed enemy unit.
JR
I believe there may be another option but it all depends on any other units on board not shown in the illustration.
I38 as a possible rout target is 3 MF away. The building in j38 is also 3 MF away (1MF to enter J37 then 2 MF to enter J38. A rout destination is the closest non-ignorable target in MFs [A10.51]
So the Russian unit could announce J38 as its rout target and begin its rout by entering J37 for 1MF. At this point the Axis unit in I38 would become Known. The Russian can no ,longer go to J38 and so would need to reconfigure a new Rout target with its 5 remaining MFs.

Cheers
Jon
 
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