rof question in def fire phase

shirlfactor

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I have a 467 mmg along with a concealed 9-1 leader 237 hs lmg. I shoot the mmg and 467 not leader directed into the adjacent target and break him and keep rof. Now there is another enemy squad 2 hexes away. Can I unconceal the rest of my units and add the mmg fire power to attack that hex?
 

shirlfactor

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My opponent finished moving so in my def fire phase I attacked the adjacent unit and kept rate. So I wanted to unconceal the rest of the stack and attack another hex using the mmg that kept rate as well
 

clubby

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Yes, you can do that. I don't believe you can use the leadership to the attack, although I'm not 100% sure, because the leader didn't direct the initial shot and you'd be forming a new FG. Also, make sure you marked the CA of the MMG because that's fixed during the remainder of the phase, assuming you're in a building/rubble/woods.
 

Philippe D.

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The leader cannot direct the fire of any unit he didn't direct in the first shot, but other than that, adding additional units to the Fire Group is OK.
 

Binchois

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I think the answer here is NO. The leader cannot direct fire as the MG would technically be forming a "new FG" with the other unit(s). For that matter, I think the leader couldn't join in for the MG's second shot because, again, this would be creating a new, larger FG (leader + MG).

7.53 FIRE DIRECTION: A single leader cannot direct more than one weapon/unit per phase unless they are part of the same FG. Hence a squad that elects to use its inherent FP in a different attack than that of the MG it is manning does not get the leadership benefit if given to the MG instead. However, a leader can direct the fire of a MG as many times as the MG can fire, even if he also directed other units as part of a FG in the MG's previous attack. Leader direction used during Defensive First Fire can be used again in Subsequent First Fire, FPF, or Final Fire, but again only for one firing unit/SW or FG—and that unit/SW/FG can only include firers he directed during First Fire; if forming a new FG or using a different SW during that Player Turn, the leader cannot direct its fire (even during FPF). Similarly, a leader may not affect more than one To Hit attempt per fire phase (except for a multiple ROF weapon) regardless of the number of SW the firing unit is eligible to fire. See also 9.4, 10.7, and D6.65.​
 

Robin Reeve

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The leader didn't direct the previous fire.
So he is not directing a new FG.
 

klasmalmstrom

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Since the leader has not directed anything yet, I think he can start direction now. NRBH, though.
 

clubby

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Since the leader has not directed anything yet, I think he can start direction now. NRBH, though.
Even if starting a new FG with a unit that has already fired but retained ROF?
 

Philippe D.

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Yes, I think that's correct (and yes, I said the opposite before; I believe I was wrong).

The first attack that the leader directs, limits every subsequent FG he may direct; but I don't think it matters whether some parts of the FG have fired prior to that leader direction.
 

Binchois

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Yes, I think that's correct (and yes, I said the opposite before; I believe I was wrong).

The first attack that the leader directs, limits every subsequent FG he may direct; but I don't think it m
Agreed! I think I was over-interpreting A7.53 in post #8, above. I guess I do that sometimes. :confused:

Thanks all!
 

jrv

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Once the leader directs something he is restricted from directing anything else, but he need not direct a weapon for every shot it takes. Usually you will leave him out later (e.g. avoid FPF), but he can direct a weapon after it has already fired.

JR
 

Philippe D.

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Usually you will leave him out later (e.g. avoid FPF),
The article in Journal 12 ("Single-hex fire groupology") says the leader won't affect the FPF NMC if he isn't directing that shot. I just had a look at A8.31 and couldn't find a rule supporting this, and you seem to be disagreeing (or is it just that keeping the Leader unbroken is more important than the added chance of not pinning/breaking the squad?). Do you have rules references for this?
 

jrv

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The article in Journal 12 ("Single-hex fire groupology") says the leader won't affect the FPF NMC if he isn't directing that shot. I just had a look at A8.31 and couldn't find a rule supporting this, and you seem to be disagreeing (or is it just that keeping the Leader unbroken is more important than the added chance of not pinning/breaking the squad?). Do you have rules references for this?
I was thinking that keeping the leader unbroken is more important. I hadn't really considered the other aspect.

JR
 

Justiciar

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The article in Journal 12 ("Single-hex fire groupology") says the leader won't affect the FPF NMC if he isn't directing that shot. I just had a look at A8.31 and couldn't find a rule supporting this, and you seem to be disagreeing (or is it just that keeping the Leader unbroken is more important than the added chance of not pinning/breaking the squad?). Do you have rules references for this?
I am not saying this is* the answer, but suggesting that it might be. See A10.7 "...or FPF attacks..." To get the leadership he had to have directed the FPF attack. By implication if he did not direct the attack then no leadership.
 

clubby

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I was thinking that keeping the leader unbroken is more important. I hadn't really considered the other aspect.

JR
I understood what you meant there. If they break and have to rout, you want the leader unbroken and ready to rally them next turn.
 

Eagle4ty

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However, I wonder what the ruling would be for Green Troops in that situation as simply the Leader's presence in the Location is somewhat of a modifier (A19.3) and would affect the shots from them even if not directing the attack.
 

jrv

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However, I wonder what the ruling would be for Green Troops in that situation as simply the Leader's presence in the Location is somewhat of a modifier (A19.3) and would affect the shots from them even if not directing the attack.
A leader doesn't modify green troops morale level. A leaders presence would affect the SW breakdown number [A19.32], but for FPF that's about it. A commissar would affect the ML.

JR
 
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