Rock - Scissors - Paper

Lord_Valentai

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This forum's looking a little sad and empty.

Dug out Ren again and played the battle of Ivry.

What exactly is the relationship in these later battles for the units to each other? Cavalry beats skirmishers, artillery and line infantry, but get beaten by pikes?

So would it be accurate to have a sort of triangle saying:
Cavalry -> Firearms -> Pikes -> Cavalry

And so on?

Are 'musket' units much use seeing as they can't fire defensively and can't skirmish?
 

TheGrayMouser

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I think for the most part you have the "triangle" correct. However the beauty of the REn engine is there is a lot of difference between unit capability even within a base type so you probobly need a rock paper scissors model within each type as well. For example as each individual unit can have its own unique melee, movement, armour value etc you kinda need to study each scenario as they can be quite differnet. In Ivry, both sides have heavier cavalry but with some drastically differnt capability. So the French gendarmes are probobly as good as the better Hougenought "reiters" but the non armoured pistoleer types are likly best for taking on dragoon type cavalry. Like it probobly was historically, you really never have the oppurtunity to isolate pikes with pistoleers and blaze away at them with impunity, but its fun to try:) Hmm muskets... I think the handbook probobly has it right when it advises to use these guys acrooss rivers or other impassable terrain to atriit enemies at long range ( they have a range of 400 yards!)
I too am surprised that this fourm is so quiet, its not like there are any other pike and musket games out there, cheers!
 

Lord_Valentai

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My strategy (admittedly against the AI) is to cram my pike units with skirmishing arquebuses to protect them before using the pikes to drive a path through the enemy line.

Are pistoliers much use shooting, or better just for charging? My firing against the pike blocks did very little.
 

TheGrayMouser

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I just loaded up Ivry as the Hugoes and decided on a slow methodical strategy My plan was to slowly bring up my pikes and use firepower to soften up the enmy and I kept my cavalry in resevre behind my infantry. Howver the Ai surprised me by sitting tight and not reacting UNTIL i was pretty close to his lines and then it went on an all out assault. I ended up using my cavalry to great effect smashing into his lighter units and pikes that hadnt had time to form block (or couldnt due to self inflicted disorder, a sad thing that the Ai does to his troops in all JT games) My swiss pikes did yeoman work as well. Very little pistol shooting in that battle :) I wonder how that game would play vs a human. 12 turns seems not nearly enough to resolve anything , unless both players decide to charge for hell and glory. Have you tried the alternate scenarios that feature mixed pike and shot units? Less units on the field for one thing.
 

Lord_Valentai

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That's the one I played, the 'Terico' unit type which fires as well as melees. Much less cluttered.

Hmm, since pike block can operate with line maybe sticking musketeers in with them is a good idea.

And yes, the AI is good at disrupting itself.
 

trauth116

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Technically pike block does not actually beat cavalry, but only moves cavalry out of the way. No losses incurred, unless I think you have the cavalry surrounded, but that is a different matter.
 

Lord_Valentai

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True, but they're also impervious to cavalry, and if you have musketeers or terico weapons they are especially effective.
 

Old Dog

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Browsing, looking for a new game and came upon your conversation. Just wanted to thank you and let you know that you've got me thinking.
Be well.
 
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