ROAR Future

von Marwitz

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Who runs ROAR?

What is the future of ROAR?

Why should I use ROAR instead of
ASL Player Ratings http://asl-ratings.org/
ASL Scenario Archive https://www.aslscenarioarchive.com/index.php

The ROAR web page certainly seems quite dated.
JR van Mechelen runs ROAR.

ROAR keeps running, new scenarios seem to be constantly added.

You should feed all sites. ASL-ratings.org is the follow-up of AREA and can only be fed by tournament directors with tournament games. For that reason ASL-ratings.org is the best site for player ratings.

ROAR's interface may be dated, yet ROAR is the site that by far exceeds any other with regard to reported playings and thus still provides the best data source there is.

von Marwitz
 

nekengren2

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I couldn't find Mr. Mechelen taking credit for his work anywhere on the site. He should.

I'm a big fan of functionality over design so not really complaining about ROAR and how it works.
I would imagine most people pick ONE web site to record their plays.

I was a big classic ASP programmer in my day and I appreciate people wanting to stick with older working tech like ROAR............instead of going with the latest Microsoft framework thrown against the wall to see that nothing stuck 2 years later.
 

hongkongwargamer

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I couldn't find Mr. Mechelen taking credit for his work anywhere on the site. He should.

I'm a big fan of functionality over design so not really complaining about ROAR and how it works.
I would imagine most people pick ONE web site to record their plays.

I was a big classic ASP programmer in my day and I appreciate people wanting to stick with older working tech like ROAR............instead of going with the latest Microsoft framework thrown against the wall to see that nothing stuck 2 years later.
As you alluded to as well - the ROAR site just works. It's probably the most solidly reliable site one can report to.
 

fenyan

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ROAR has been around forever, with more data so we always look there for balance data to get a feel for if we should use the balance for a scenario. The ASL Scenario archive is great as well for many things along with its written after action report snippets.
 

Kijug

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I couldn't find Mr. Mechelen taking credit for his work anywhere on the site. He should.

I'm a big fan of functionality over design...
...people wanting to stick with older working tech like ROAR...
And it's a "large" web page that has lots of information and loads quickly 'cause it doesn't have 2000000 GB of useless auto-play videos and other graphics that take three years to load. I like the ROAR website.
 

nekengren2

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And it's a "large" web page that has lots of information and loads quickly 'cause it doesn't have 2000000 GB of useless auto-play videos and other graphics that take three years to load. I like the ROAR website.
yes i totally get it. and most modern pages have GB of background API libraries that are never used, never seen by users, but have to be downloaded.
There is a reason the main Google search page is so simple.........................speed and little user confusion.
 

Juzek

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I use ROAR frequently to report results and get some idea of the balance and interest level of a scenario.
ASL Scenario Archive is great to get a thumbnail about a scenario, where to find it, and sometimes a few short AARs.
Haven't participated in ASL Player Ratings yet, but I guess if I did it would confirm what I already know - I'm a lower than average player as far as wins and losses go. I think that reflects that I frequently play guys who are better than me, but who needs to see that in black and white?
 

witchbottles

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everything you report to ROAR auto-transfers to ASL Scenario Archive Reporting. The reverse is not true,
 

MajorDomo

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I record all my games on ROAR, really nice to check if I have played a scenario or person.

Also, very useful to sniff out dog scenarios.

I download my games to a spread sheet, periodically.
 

von Marwitz

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everything you report to ROAR auto-transfers to ASL Scenario Archive Reporting. The reverse is not true,
It does, but you will note that there seems to be a significant lag. ROAR stats in the ASL Scenario Archive are often significantly off the original ROAR stats. At least this is what I have observed in the past.

von Marwitz
 

nekengren2

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As you alluded to as well - the ROAR site just works. It's probably the most solidly reliable site one can report to.
#1 only an obscure email address
#2 don't see it
#3 JRV part of URL is not taking credit IMHO

So no.....JR van Mechelen.........the actual name of a person is nowhere to be found.
Congratulation to JR van Mechelen for keeping it all going.
 

Major Issues

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Full disclosure - I have known JR since forever, and we used to play every week, until he got that restraining order. But he is still a good friend, and I would gladly accept a kidney from him.

All my games are posted on ROAR. There are scenario designers who have posted, with some justification, that there are not enough playings listed for their scenario to determine if it is truly balanced. So the more of you that add playings, the more accurate the balance will be. This is especially true with the non-MMP scenarios, which tend to have less playings. So support the fringes of ASL by playing and posting results for scenarios from Dispatches From The Bunker, Lone Canuck, LFT, BFP and all the others. (I am still awaiting the next 'On All Fronts' issue...)

I said 'some justification' above, because I remember a post where the designer said that an 11-3 record for his scenario wasn't statistically relevant. I am not a statistician, but after 14 playings, I would expect roughly the same percentages if there were 30, 40, 50 playings.

One friend tends to choose scenarios based on a roughly even ROAR rating. This doesn't always make for a great game. Some have been boring, (Ambush! comes to mind), others might be dependent on the effectiveness of one awesome tank or 1941 Russian OBA.

Another friend tends to look more at the player rating of the scenario, rather than the win/loss record. I can say that I have played a lot of scenarios that were tons of fun, even if not balanced. So if you do post listings, put in your rating for the funness (I make up my own words. Or werds.) of the scenario.

One of the awesome things about ROAR is that it lists all scenarios, even those that some guy posted from his mom's basement while eating a Hot Pocket, and only three people on the planet have seen. It can also be informative to compare the results for a scenario to the results of a reissued, modified version. Sometimes, the newer version is more unbalanced.

Which, coincidentally, is what many people say about me...
 

Actionjick

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Full disclosure - I have known JR since forever, and we used to play every week, until he got that restraining order. But he is still a good friend, and I would gladly accept a kidney from him.

All my games are posted on ROAR. There are scenario designers who have posted, with some justification, that there are not enough playings listed for their scenario to determine if it is truly balanced. So the more of you that add playings, the more accurate the balance will be. This is especially true with the non-MMP scenarios, which tend to have less playings. So support the fringes of ASL by playing and posting results for scenarios from Dispatches From The Bunker, Lone Canuck, LFT, BFP and all the others. (I am still awaiting the next 'On All Fronts' issue...)

I said 'some justification' above, because I remember a post where the designer said that an 11-3 record for his scenario wasn't statistically relevant. I am not a statistician, but after 14 playings, I would expect roughly the same percentages if there were 30, 40, 50 playings.

One friend tends to choose scenarios based on a roughly even ROAR rating. This doesn't always make for a great game. Some have been boring, (Ambush! comes to mind), others might be dependent on the effectiveness of one awesome tank or 1941 Russian OBA.

Another friend tends to look more at the player rating of the scenario, rather than the win/loss record. I can say that I have played a lot of scenarios that were tons of fun, even if not balanced. So if you do post listings, put in your rating for the funness (I make up my own words. Or werds.) of the scenario.

One of the awesome things about ROAR is that it lists all scenarios, even those that some guy posted from his mom's basement while eating a Hot Pocket, and only three people on the planet have seen. It can also be informative to compare the results for a scenario to the results of a reissued, modified version. Sometimes, the newer version is more unbalanced.

Which, coincidentally, is what many people say about me...
I've stated way too often that I place little credence with scenario balance. That being said 11-3 does seem a bit skewed. 😉

In the designer's defense a lot has to do with who played the scenario. I will say if Fish and I played a scenario fourteen times and I won three I wouldn't call it that unbalanced. We probably played Strayer's Strays at least fourteen times, mainly as quick play. Of course he won most of them.🙄

I can see where picking scenarios mainly using the criteria of balance could lead to playing some unexciting games. Much preferred cool stuff/situations and a challenge.
 

bprobst

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I said 'some justification' above, because I remember a post where the designer said that an 11-3 record for his scenario wasn't statistically relevant. I am not a statistician, but after 14 playings, I would expect roughly the same percentages if there were 30, 40, 50 playings.
It would be astonishing to have a scenario have the same proportions between 14 playings and 30 playings. Proportions staying consistent after that is more likely. "40" is the sweet spot; by the time you have reached that many playings, it's quite unlikely that the proportions will change much after that.

The reason for this boils down to the fact that with a small number of playings the percentage swing for each new playing is enormous -- upwards of 5% or more. By the time you get to 40 playings you're down to 1% increments, more or less.

Whoever that designer was that dismissed the 11-3 record was perfectly correct to do so.

Those are just numbers, though. ROAR gives you numbers, but numbers don't tell you how the scenario plays. Only playing the scenario will tell you how it plays. I know of a few scenarios that have perfect records on ROAR but they are really hopeless stinkers. The best that ROAR can do is give you a vague idea of what you might expect when you play the scenario, and with significantly less than 40 playings, it can't even do that.
 

Sean Deller

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First...a hearty shout out to JR and everyone else who has contributed valuable resources to our hobby (ROAR, VASL, ASL Players Ratings, AREA, VASL, ASL Armory, Desperation Morale website, VASL, Klass with Klas, and many more I can't think of at the moment). Bravo Zulu.

Regarding a lack of ROAR balance...some of those scenarios are indeed mutts. However, some of them can be far more balanced than they appear. Yes, 14 playings (11-3) is statistically insignificant, but I understand why someone might raise an eyebrow. That said nobody (including me, and I'm a mathematician) is interested in a debate on what can be properly inferred from some skewed initial results.

My point is this...for some of those canine candidates the culprit is a steep learning curve. ROAR can't tell you which 11-3 record is a dog, and which one shows that the initial playings didn't represent a complete grasp of the challenge that was presented. This is not a criticism (there's no way ROAR can do that); it's just a recommendation that you should temper any preliminary ROAR feedback with your own assessment of the scenario. Steep learning curve scenarios will always appear unbalanced initially.
 
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