RO1 Number of counters per hexrow

jrv

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By SSR2 each side may place at most 12 counters per hexrow [EXC: "?" counters; hidden units/fortifications]. Does the flame counter in SSR1 count against the Soviets? If the player sets up with location counters such as Cellar, Rooftop, Level One, wall advantage, do these count?

JR
 

Eagle4ty

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By SSR2 each side may place at most 12 counters per hexrow [EXC: "?" counters; hidden units/fortifications]. Does the flame counter in SSR1 count against the Soviets? If the player sets up with location counters such as Cellar, Rooftop, Level One, wall advantage, do these count?

JR
Per the ASLRB I would contend a WA/Level/"?"/etc. are counters and would count against the limit (though I doubt that was the intention), so yes any ancillary counters are still counters. Now for HIP units I'm a little less sure as only the location of these units are noted on a side record and are actually not placed on-board (again I doubt if this was the intent) unless the player would initially place them on-board prior to play to get a visual of where they would be, this would of course prohibit them from placing additional counters in that hexrow in excess of the required amount until such a time as the HIP units were removed (perhaps a third party could overwatch the placement to ensure no rule violation occurs during setup).:rolleyes:;)
 

clubby

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It looks like HIP is EXC by SSR.
 

jrv

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Hidden units are clearly (clearly enough for me, anyway) excluded. Although HIP weapons … never mind. Not worth thinking about.

The flame counter is awkward. It is placed, by SSR1. SSR2 says, "For each side, a maximum of 12 counters may be set up per hexrow [EXC: "?" counters; hidden units/fortifications]." Is the flame set up for a side? Does who put the counter affect its side? Perhaps not, although the German would be perfectly content if it weren't placed.

The location counters are the more problematic. Given the terrain I think in most set ups it wouldn't be an issue for the Soviets (they are going to be affected by this most) to count the location counters because most hexes in likely set up areas have only one location and very few have walls.

JR
 

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Adding markers to show status isn't really "setting up counters"
 

Magpie

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By what rule? Why is putting down a 4-6-7 on the map setting up a counter and putting down a level one counter not?

JR
Because the Level 1 counter is showing where the 4-6-7 has been placed it's an "informational or memory devices only" [A.12] and "The floor remains inherently present despite the absence of the Level counter. The Level counter is used only to show units on that specific upper level." [B23.421]
 

Justiciar

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"devices" = counters they are synonyms in this context.
Not that I agree that is the intent of the SSR, and I have played the scenario already, and we did not count informational counters for that purpose, nor the flame.
 

Swiftandsure

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As Charles Kibler is the designer of the scenario, it would be interesting to know from him what he meant precisely.
 

Swiftandsure

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I would be extremely surprised if he meant to include informational counters.
So would I.
It would be interesting to know if the playtesters even thought of counting the informational counters.
If nobody did, the scenario was balanced without that counting and should be played that way.
 

Eagle4ty

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In as much as the Flame/Blaze counter is a special case, I would include this as a counter placement under the limitation.
 

Perry

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I would be extremely surprised if he meant to include informational counters.
I agree, which is good, since the SSR does not intend to include such. Else it would have specified so.

The Flame counter obviously does not count since it does not belong to either side.

No one actually thinks that the SSR intends to count information counters.

This is only some complaining about the imprecision of the writing.

Mea culpa.
 
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