Reverse Bypass

antony.marsh

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Can a very small AFV reverse bypass a narrow street to another narrow street using bypass. This is especially relevant to Dinant. I've read Narrow street rules-B31.123 says the AFV can change its VCA but no mention of reverse bypass. Also checked D2.22 where I believe it prohibits bypass to bypass as there has to be two hexes available. On the Dinant map: AFV at RR36-RR37. Can it use reverse bypass to get to QQ37-QQ36? Hope this is clear, cheers.
 

The Purist

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I don't see anything that would prevent reverse VBM in Narrow Streets except if you are towing. A narrow street is still "Bypass" but with certain extra rules thrown in regarding L and LL guns, towing and other so noted. D2.22 is only limiting the reverse bypass to the two hexes behind the vehicle as per the example at the bottom of page D5. Note that D2.22 does state that once in reverse bypass -

"...it may change its VCA (barring other restrictions ) within that new hex at the normal cost."

See also D2.32-D2.33

Just remember that the vehicle is considered at vertex of the hexside being bypassed. If you reverse you would have to traverse that hexside again to the vertex at the other end of that side. Assuming you are at the vertex of RR36/RR37/[SS37 VCA] you would pay 4x cost to reverse to EDIT: RR36/RR37[QQ37 rear VCA] . By expending 1 MP to turn you could then reverse to QQ37/RR36/[QQ36 rear VCA]

<I hope that looks as clear to you as it does to me as I write it.>
 
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antony.marsh

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I don't see anything that would prevent reverse VBM in Narrow Streets except if you are towing. A narrow street is still "Bypass" but with certain extra rules thrown in regarding L and LL guns, towing and other so noted. D2.22 is only limiting the reverse bypass to the two hexes the vehicle stated as per the example at the bottom of page D5. Note that D2.22 does state that once in reverse bypass -

"...it may change its VCA (barring other restrictions ) within that new hex at the normal cost."

See also D2.32-D2.33

Just remember that the vehicle is considered at vertex of the hexside being bypassed. If you reverse you would have to traverse that hexside again to the vertex at the other end of that side. Assuming you are at the vertex of RR36/RR37/[SS37 VCA] you would pay 4x cost to reverse to RR36/RR37/[QQ37 rear VCA] . By expending 1 MP to turn you could then reverse to QQ36/QQ37/[PP35 rear VCA]

<I hope that looks as clear to you as it does to me as I write it.>
Great. I see the bit where AFVs can reverse bypass but the second part of your example has confused me. How has it got PP35 as its rear VCA? Did you turn it again? Cheers
 

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Sorry,.... misread the map,... should be QQ37/RR36 with QQ36 for rear VCA. Fixed above (was confusing myself there for a minute,... o_O )
 
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EJ1

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...Just remember that the vehicle is considered at vertex of the hexside being bypassed. If you reverse you would have to traverse that hexside again to the vertex at the other end of that side. Assuming you are at the vertex of RR36/RR37/[SS37 VCA] you would pay 4x cost to reverse to EDIT: RR36/RR37[QQ37 rear VCA] . By expending 1 MP to turn you could then reverse to QQ37/RR36/[QQ36 rear VCA]
(My emphasis in red.)

Hi The Purist,

Having grappled with the cost of reverse movement, I've learned that one doesn't pay (expend MPs) to reverse back along the hexside one is bypassing or has just bypassed - providing that you're still at the CAFP of that bypassed hexside.

The following Gamesquad post helps me: http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/index.php?threads/reversing-in-bypass-cost.150225/#post-1958222

Agree?

Cheers
 

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Note however that once you have traversed a narrow street in one direction you cannot use use Reverse movement (or any other vehicular movement) in the other direction in the same MPh as you have established a one lane direction restriction (B31.11).
 

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(My emphasis in red.)

Hi The Purist,

Having grappled with the cost of reverse movement, I've learned that one doesn't pay (expend MPs) to reverse back along the hexside one is bypassing or has just bypassed - providing that you're still at the CAFP of that bypassed hexside.

The following Gamesquad post helps me: http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/index.php?threads/reversing-in-bypass-cost.150225/#post-1958222...
Ah,.... teleporting around the corner and down the street. I see the problem Mr Cleavin had with the application of the rule and I sympathise.

All the same, the others are correct in that units pay to enter a hex/location not to leave one.

Always happy to be proven wrong, helps cement the rule in the grey matter. :)
 

klasmalmstrom

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Note however that once you have traversed a narrow street in one direction you cannot use use Reverse movement (or any other vehicular movement) in the other direction in the same MPh as you have established a one lane direction restriction (B31.11).
You can do it once, after that no further vehicle movement is allowed.
B6.431:
"Once a vehicle moves across a One-Lane bridge in a direction opposite that used by any vehicle on that bridge during that Player Turn, no further vehicular movement is allowed onto that bridge in either direction during that Player Turn."
 

antony.marsh

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Now we have more information, referring back to the example mentioned in earlier posts is it the case that there are zero MPs for the AFV when it reverses along the RR36-RR37 hexside. MP start when it changes VCA in QQ37-RR36. Correct? Cheers
 

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Now we have more information, referring back to the example mentioned in earlier posts is it the case that there are zero MPs for the AFV when it reverses along the RR36-RR37 hexside. MP start when it changes VCA in QQ37-RR36. Correct? Cheers
It gets a bit fluffy, I think.
You are in RR36 in bypass of RR36-RR37 in reverse motion and wish to reverse into RR36 in RR36-QQ37?
I think you first pay 1 MP to change VCA but this is done at your current VCA focal point and can be shot at there.
Now, I am not absolutely certain that the VCA focal point switches to the rear of the vehicle when in reverse but logically, it must.
 

antony.marsh

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Now we have more information, referring back to the example mentioned in earlier posts is it the case that there are zero MPs for the AFV when it reverses along the RR36-RR37 hexside. MP start when it changes VCA in QQ37-RR36. Correct? Cheers
It gets a bit fluffy, I think.
You are in RR36 in bypass of RR36-RR37 in reverse motion and wish to reverse into RR36 in RR36-QQ37?
I think you first pay 1 MP to change VCA but this is done at your current VCA focal point and can be shot at there.
Now, I am not absolutely certain that the VCA focal point switches to the rear of the vehicle when in reverse but logically, it must.
Loads of fluff here. The AFV is on he side RR36-RR37(VCA at SS37). It declares a start MP and then reverses but has to change VCA at QQ37-RR36-RR37 vertex. How many MPs are used and where? It actually wants to continue reversing all the way to the river road but once this first corner is sorted I guess the others will be the same. I thought I understood it, courtesy of the Purist but EGI comment that MPs are not expended on the hexside as it reverses has thrown me. Cheers for further help.​
 

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Well,... as the discussion noted in the link provided above, the vehicle will pay for entering a hex, not for leaving one. This being the case the tank will 'hop' to the rear VCA so it can execute the turn and back down the next hexside and so on. There is a hole in the reality argument but there it is. I suppose for sanity's sake you could assume the tanked reversed a bit during its start movement.
 

antony.marsh

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Well,... as the discussion noted in the link provided above, the vehicle will pay for entering a hex, not for leaving one. This being the case the tank will 'hop' to the rear VCA so it can execute the turn and back down the next hexside and so on. There is a hole in the reality argument but there it is. I suppose for sanity's sake you could assume the tanked reversed a bit during its start movement.
If it continu
Well,... as the discussion noted in the link provided above, the vehicle will pay for entering a hex, not for leaving one. This being the case the tank will 'hop' to the rear VCA so it can execute the turn and back down the next hexside and so on. There is a hole in the reality argument but there it is. I suppose for sanity's sake you could assume the tanked reversed a bit during its start movement.
Got the bit about hopping back but when it reverses down the next hex side (QQ37-RR36) is it spending MP before it changes VCA again-to head to QQ37-QQ36. Sorry to go psycho about this but if you're going to enjoy this then you've got to get it right. Cheers.
 

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If I understand the process you would spend 1 MP to Start in Reverse in RR36/RR37, 1 MP to change the Rear VCA and 4 MP to VBM QQ37/RR36 with your Rear VCA now facing QQ36 (CA Focal point being the vertex of QQ36/QQ37/RR36).
 

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If I understand the process you would spend 1 MP to Start in Reverse in RR36/RR37, 1 MP to change the Rear VCA and 4 MP to VBM QQ37/RR36 with your Rear VCA now facing QQ36 (CA Focal point being the vertex of QQ36/QQ37/RR36).
Just quibbly but I would say you spend 1 MP to change your VCA (which coincidentally counterrotates the a** end!). Also, it is 8 MP (4x to proceed in reverse, and 2x in bypass, assuming 1 = other COT).
 

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Yes, if you start in reverse the back end of vehicle is at the CAFP (rear). It's a Narrow Road , so as long as the vehicle is CE it would be 4 MP ((1 x 4 [reverse]) x2 [VBM])* 1/2 [road movement]) = 4 MP :)
 

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Yes, if you start in reverse the back end of vehicle is at the CAFP (rear). It's a Narrow Road , so as long as the vehicle is CE it would be 4 MP (((1 x 4 [reverse]) x2 [VBM]))* 1/2 [road movement] = 4 MP) :)
Sorry, I forgot we were discussing a narrow road, not open ground other terrain. Mea culpa.
 

antony.marsh

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Sorry, I forgot we were discussing a narrow road, not open ground other terrain. Mea culpa.
Okay, brilliant that's what I thought. Just to clarify: When the vehicle declares a start/reverse MP on the RR36-RR37 hexside is DFF aimed at the rear CAFP( in this case RR37-QQ37-RR37) vertex. If so this is a smart move as the AFV is now out of LOS! Cheers again.
 

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Yes, if you start in reverse the back end of vehicle is at the CAFP (rear). It's a Narrow Road , so as long as the vehicle is CE it would be 4 MP ((1 x 4 [reverse]) x2 [VBM])* 1/2 [road movement]) = 4 MP :)
Note that the MP cost of bypassing a Narrow Street is 1 MP - regardless of whether one is CE or not.

B13.141 EX, 3rd paragraph:
"A vehicle (tracked or not) in L11 moving to J12 would pay 1 MP along the L12-K12 hexside (half the normal 2 MP for Bypassing in Open Ground), plus 2 MP for the VCA change and entry onto the K12-K13 hexside, regardless of CE/BU status."
 
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