Restrictions on Soviet rump state.

[rasmus]

In my Eastern Crusade game against KoK he has knocked out russia and is four hexes from Paris in May 42. The White russians and recostituted reds are currently on the march and will probably reach Moscow in two or three turns.
The questions is:
What, if any, are the geographical restrictions on the russian units?
Are they technincal guerrillas and as such confined to mother Russia?
Are they the spearhead of the newborn Phoenix Russia rising from the ashes and as such free to go wherever they please (that would be Berlin)?



The version we play is COW 3.4d.

 

[Raver]

Wow. I've never heard of anything like that happening before. All the EC games I've played have ended with a german victory, and once knocked down the russians certainly never rise again. Well done!

On your question - my opinion would be that you do what you like.

 

[rasmus]

Wow. I've never heard of anything like that happening before. All the EC games I've played have ended with a german victory, and once knocked down the russians certainly never rise again. Well done!

On your question - my opinion would be that you do what you like.

The russian succes is mainly due to the fact that the entire Wehrmacht is currently wiping the floor with combined armies of France, Britain and the USA

 

[Veers]

The russian succes is mainly due to the fact that the entire Wehrmacht is currently wiping the floor with combined armies of France, Britain and the USA

He should have left some on RUssia to guard against the Whites.
I would say that their thirst for revenge would carry them to Berlin.

 

[rasmus]

He should have left some on RUssia to guard against the Whites.
I would say that their thirst for revenge would carry them to Berlin.

Is this an OFFICIAL ruling that the White russians are allowed to leave Russia?

To be fair to my opponent I must mention that he left all the armies of Poland, Hungary, Rumania a lot of secury Units to guard against the russians. Moist are still in place locking up the Urals. But Russia is a big place, and when the need to reinforce arose he was embroiled in France and many bridges were down.

 

[Veers]

Is this an OFFICIAL ruling that the White russians are allowed to leave Russia?

To be fair to my opponent I must mention that he left all the armies of Poland, Hungary, Rumania a lot of secury Units to guard against the russians. Moist are still in place locking up the Urals. But Russia is a big place, and when the need to reinforce arose he was embroiled in France and many bridges were down.

I would say that since no restrictions are given for them in the manual (if memory serves, my memory is part of the reason for my qualification below) then there are no restrictions on them.
I am at work right now. Tomorrow morning (GMT -8) I will give an official ruling, after I have had a time to consider the full intent of the Whites and review the manual. A ruling on this will be included in EA v 4.0's new manual, in the geographical restrictions section, when I put out EA v 4.0.

This is very interesting data, however, and I greatly hope that when you two finish, no matter the outcome, that I can get a debrief on how it played out, as one of the ideas for 4.0 is increasing American and White Russian strength post-fall of the USSR, to make the game playable after the fall of the USSR. Having this data will help give an idea of to just what extent the White Russians/Western Allies may need to be strengthened to to make a game of it post-fall-of-USSR.

 

[Veers]

Official: Unrestricted. I'm adding the Free Russians to the list of unrestricted (geographically) units in the manual.

 

[rasmus]

Official: Unrestricted. I'm adding the Free Russians to the list of unrestricted (geographically) units in the manual.

Thank you.
:horse:

 

[Killorbekilled]

I agree regarding The White Russians: I think should be able to leave the USSR - it's all those reconstituting Red Army units that pop up interminably (I understand this is due to a glitch in the game?) that I think should be treated as Guerrillas.

 

[Veers]

I agree regarding The White Russians: I think should be able to leave the USSR - it's all those reconstituting Red Army units that pop up interminably (I understand this is due to a glitch in the game?) that I think should be treated as Guerrillas.

A) Those reconstituting Reds are due to a game error that has, thankfully, been fixed with T3.
B) With CoW the reconstituted units were always justiified as 'Free Forces' (like the Free French, Poles, Belgians, etc. that fought for the Western Allies). Since they are considered to be fighting with the Brits and Amis, they are unrestricted. I would consider the reconstituting reds as
A) Troops that escaped the German scythe, retreating to Siberia, now returned, or
B) (For units that reconstitue when a city is taken) troops and former civilians that have joined the cause now that they have been liberated.
Presedence can be found with the Poles who fought for the Free Poles in the west after beign liberated from POW camps. Other examples of this sort of thing could probably be found, as well.

 

[Killorbekilled]

Well since these units spring from a game error, I don't think they should be given such lofty status - technically they shouldn't even be there. I most of my past games I've always disbanded the reconstituting Reds.

 

[Veers]

Well since these units spring from a game error, I don't think they should be given such lofty status - technically they shouldn't even be there. I most of my past games I've always disbanded the reconstituting Reds.

A few individual national units may reconstitute and fight on even when their countries surrender: this is a limitation in the game engine - we suggest that these units be regarded as volunteers fleeing to friendly territory and reforming in exile, fascist die-hards, by-passed units forming large groups of partisans, etc. They add a welcome element of uncertainty into the scenario.

Now this is the suggestion that was/is in the manual. However, it is only a suggestion (a suggeston I like, and that we will no longer have to deal with in T3), and it would have been up to you two to decide upon its legitimecy before you started (of course, who ever know this kind of issue will come up, eh?). Now that you have started it really is up to the two of you to come up with some agreement regarding the use of the remaining Reds. You're other option would be to agree on a third party that you would give the authority to rule on the issue.

 

[rasmus]

Now this is the suggestion that was/is in the manual. However, it is only a suggestion (a suggeston I like, and that we will no longer have to deal with in T3), and it would have been up to you two to decide upon its legitimecy before you started (of course, who ever know this kind of issue will come up, eh?). Now that you have started it really is up to the two of you to come up with some agreement regarding the use of the remaining Reds. You're other option would be to agree on a third party that you would give the authority to rule on the issue.

I will not mind keeping the regular russians within russia.

 

[Killorbekilled]

I don't mind either way - I don't think it makes much difference really - it's more of an annoyance. Turn's on it's way...

 

[Veers]

I'd be very curious to see a save file/screen shot to see how things are going. Maybe from both sides?

 

[rasmus]

I'd be very curious to see a save file/screen shot to see how things are going. Maybe from both sides?

No worries. Send me a mail at rasmuswinkel at tiscali dot dk, and I will mail you a current save.