Residual FP and in-hex TEM

[Velocette]

Still trying to learn the ASL RB..... was dry-running (solo play) a Red Barricades scenario this early evening and had the following happen:

At the start of the MPh, German Squad "A" in a single-story stone building attempts Smoke Grenade placement, rolls a 5 for No Effect, and then is hit with a Russian 6 FP DFF for the 1 MP expended in the attempt. DR is 9+3, no effect. I placed a 2 Residual FP counter in the hex because there were no "out of hex" hindrances or modifiers. Squad A goes off on his merry way with the remaining MP.

Later in the turn, German Squad "B" enters the hex with the 2 Residual FP marker via Bypass.

I initially executed the Residual FP attack as 2 FP; -1 FFMO and -1 FFNAM. IFT DR = 3.... ugh.

A few minutes ago, I finished re-reading CH A, Section 8 and came upon the following in 8.2: "All non-hexside TEM and SMOKE/FFE-Hindrance DRM of the target Location apply to a Residual FP attack (even vs. Bypassing units)."

My question is: should the 2 FP Residual attack vs Squad "B" have been resolved as: 2 FP; -1 FFNAM and +3 stone building?

Thanks,
Velo

 

[fanatic+1]

Yes.

 

[Velocette]

Thanks

Velo

 

[Paul John]

My question is: should the 2 FP Residual attack vs Squad "B" have been resolved as: 2 FP; -1 FFNAM and +3 stone building?

Note that would be the case even if bypassing the building.

 

[Eagle4ty]

The one caveat to this as far I can recall is a factory. As per B23.741 "For Residual FP in a Factory Location, Building TEM applies if the moving unit is entering by crossing a non-building hexside or Bypassing in the hex; otherwise, Factory TEM applies."

 

[Velocette]

Thanks to all for the confirmation and clarifications

Velo

 

[jrv]

Another minor complication is for fire lanes, which are a form of residual fire. Fire lanes, because they are directional, do not get the obstacle TEM for bypassing units. The attack may be blocked by the bypassed obstacle, but if not the attack will use the hexside TEM, typically Open Ground. Obviously not applicable in this case.

JR

 

[von Marwitz]

Another minor complication is for fire lanes, which are a form of residual fire. Fire lanes, because they are directional, do not get the obstacle TEM for bypassing units. The attack may be blocked by the bypassed obstacle, but if not the attack will use the hexside TEM, typically Open Ground. Obviously not applicable in this case.

JR

Now, let us elaborate on this point a little more:

Please have a look at the following illustration:



The German unit in R1 has laid down a FL down to V1 with the alternate hexgrain as indicated.
There is no LOS from R1 to the U1-V0-V1 vertex nor to the V0-V1-W1 vertex.
There is 1FP of normal RFP in V1 beside the 1FP of Fire Lane RFP in V1.
The Russian squad in W1 now wants to bypass V1 along the V0-V1 hexside not using Assault Movement.

Is the following correct?

1. Per A9.222 the normal RFP attacks first, so the 447 is attacked by a 1RFP attack @ -1 FFNAM, +1 Woods TEM, despite using bypass.
2. Then the 447 is attacked by the 1 FL RFP @ -1 FFNAM, -1 FFMO, and no Woods TEM, despite the German unit that placed the Fire Lane having no LOS to the hexside bypassed.

von Marwitz

 

[Eagle4ty]

Now, let us elaborate on this point a little more:

Please have a look at the following illustration:

View attachment 5942

The German unit in R1 has laid down a FL down to V1 with the alternate hexgrain as indicated.
There is no LOS from R1 to the U1-V0-V1 vertex nor to the V0-V1-W1 vertex.
There is 1FP of normal RFP in V1 beside the 1FP of Fire Lane RFP in V1.
The Russian squad in W1 now wants to bypass V1 along the V0-V1 hexside not using Assault Movement.

Is the following correct?

1. Per A9.222 the normal RFP attacks first, so the 447 is attacked by a 1RFP attack @ -1 FFNAM, +1 Woods TEM, despite using bypass.
2. Then the 447 is attacked by the 1 FL RFP @ -1 FFNAM, -1 FFMO, and no Woods TEM, despite the German unit that placed the Fire Lane having no LOS to the hexside bypassed.

von Marwitz

Because the firing unit has the option to trace its LOS/LOF to the bypassing unit's hexside vertices, but the effects (FFMO & FFNAM) would only apply if the actual LOS was drawn to a bypass vertex (B4.34), I believe your statement in "2." is incorrect. It's my take that it would still be attacked by the FL RFP because that is the hex it can trace its LOS/LOF to but the target would get the TEM (thus nulifying FFMO) because a LOS couldn't be traced to the vertex used to determine the bypass of the terrain within that hex.

 

[aneil1234]

The FL Article pp32 Journal 6 indicates to me that it was attacked with the TEM.
Thats how I have played it in the past, based on this article and reading the RB 100's of times to work it out ??
(Still never sure if I'm right BTW)

The other option is a snapshot as per A9.221, that could work too


But if I was the 447 Owner I'd just bypass V0 and avoid the FL completely, but that is of course not the point of the question lol