Red Factories miscellaneous stuff

Magpie

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Skulking kills DFire opportunities, meaning the ATTACKER has to weigh setting aside units in the PFPh (inc. OppFire) rather than having them move on objectives that were softened up during DFire. Especially with the current scenario design standard, skulking, especially early on in scenarios, can be problematic.
I agree but I don't see it as an invalid tactic. It makes sense to hide from the enemy firepower if there is no logical reason not to
 

'Ol Fezziwig

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I agree but I don't see it as an invalid tactic. It makes sense to hide from the enemy firepower if there is no logical reason not to
I don't have, philosophically, an issue with what skulking 'represents' I abhor the procedural dog and pony show of physically moving counters back and forth. I've always felt skulking takes place within the scale of the hex, not moving back and forth.
One of my personal little heresies is the belief that a new 'cover' counter (PFph orange)/rule should be considered making all fires at so marked units halved (cumulative with concealment).
I'll spare you the corollary of allowing DFire units to forgo actual DFire and using their CX movement capability (2 MF & Leader Bonus if possible) aft the cost of being marked Final Fired.
 

Gordon

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I don't have, philosophically, an issue with what skulking 'represents' I abhor the procedural dog and pony show of physically moving counters back and forth. I've always felt skulking takes place within the scale of the hex, not moving back and forth.
One of my personal little heresies is the belief that a new 'cover' counter (PFph orange)/rule should be considered making all fires at so marked units halved (cumulative with concealment).
I'll spare you the corollary of allowing DFire units to forgo actual DFire and using their CX movement capability (2 MF & Leader Bonus if possible) aft the cost of being marked Final Fired.
I like the "cover" counter idea, but what about the concealment-regrowth capability of skulking?
 

Magpie

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I think that would lessen the consequences of "going to ground" so to speak, better to have the defender have to move back and forth
Being double concealed is to powerful IMO
 

Joelist

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Hi!

First the suggested rule does not make the Commissar's House impregnable by a long shot. All it does is make the Attacker use their special equipment which they have a lot of. They have six demo charges and 2 FT. Remember that the proposal exempts DC and FT from the Area Fire rule. It also says once the bedside is breached it no longer gets the benefit.

As to skulking and other tactics, they require blind hexes and also adjacent buildings to work - the RB scenario in view lacks both. On the one hand this should help the defender by making the attacker cross less protected terrain to get to the objective - on the other hand it makes it a pretty straightforward exercise to use small arms fire to blow the defender out of their fortified stone building.
 

Philippe D.

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I think we can safely guess that skulking as a tactic is taken into account in modern scenario design... so changing the rules might break a fair number of them.

One important effect of the rules on the skulking tactic is that you need some space to make it work as the defender. If your opponent is attacking from just one side, it works fine; but if he can hit you from both sides of your defensive perimeter, you need it to be more than 2 hexes thick or your units skulking from one side will be under fire from enemy units on the other side. Since there are few buildings that are bigger than that, it becomes a possible counter for the attacked in urban fights.

I'd even say it's one of the Soviet problems in The Commissar's House, which seems to be the standard RB scenario being discussed in this thread.
 

von Marwitz

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I think we can safely guess that skulking as a tactic is taken into account in modern scenario design... so changing the rules might break a fair number of them.
This is not only an issue with skulking but generally for most major or significant changes of the rules.

And this will also be the reason why any ASLRB v3 (if any) will use rules changes sparingly and with special scrutiny to the consequences.

On one hand I reckon that everyone agrees on some rules could do with some changes or improvements. But on the other hand, at least I believe that maintaining the integrity of the existing material would in most cases outweigh the benefit of rules changes.

As hat been noted, significant rules changes would likely break or affect the balance of many scenarios.


von Marwitz
 

klasmalmstrom

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I think we can safely guess that skulking as a tactic is taken into account in modern scenario design... so changing the rules might break a fair number of them.

This is not only an issue with skulking but generally for most major or significant changes of the rules.
It's not like "skulking" is some new/modern concept - it has been used as far as I've been playing (around 1990), and I'll wager even before that.
 

FMFCB

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I noticed that there 6 siG 1B counters included in Red Factories. I can't see where you can buy as RG and I don't see them in any starting forces.
Are they replace counters?
 

Perry

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I noticed that there 6 siG 1B counters included in Red Factories. I can't see where you can buy as RG and I don't see them in any starting forces.
Are they replace counters?
One can never enough siG One Bravo counters. ;)
 

lightspeed

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It's not like "skulking" is some new/modern concept - it has been used as far as I've been playing (around 1990), and I'll wager even before that.
IIRC, I found an instance of skulking from the replay of Guryev's HQ in an old copy of the General. When I have time, I'll find the precise details.

As you correctly say, there is nothing new about skulking. Nor is there anything new about the complaints against it.

Skulking is an artifact of the turn sequence. Complaining about skulking is an artifact of forgetting about the design for effect philosophy.

jmho.

indy
 

Swiftandsure

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This is not only an issue with skulking but generally for most major or significant changes of the rules.

And this will also be the reason why any ASLRB v3 (if any) will use rules changes sparingly and with special scrutiny to the consequences.

On one hand I reckon that everyone agrees on some rules could do with some changes or improvements. But on the other hand, at least I believe that maintaining the integrity of the existing material would in most cases outweigh the benefit of rules changes.

As hat been noted, significant rules changes would likely break or affect the balance of many scenarios.


von Marwitz
ASLRB v1 now! 😋
 
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