Red Factories CPP Poll

How would you spend 1CPP in RO CGII?

  • Buy OBA (80+ Btln Mtr or 70+).

    Votes: 15 40.5%
  • Buy a pre-reg hex for already purchased OBA.

    Votes: 3 8.1%
  • Buy Forts and up Booby Trap level.

    Votes: 3 8.1%
  • Upgrade SAN from a 5 to a 6.

    Votes: 12 32.4%
  • Save it for the next day.

    Votes: 3 8.1%
  • Other (please explain).

    Votes: 1 2.7%

  • Total voters
    37

Smedley

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Getting ready to start a RO CGII and after making my purchases I had 1CPP left over. What would you spend this 1CPP on??
I have already made my choice.
 

Honza

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I'd buy 40FPP and purchase either fortified buildings or mines.
 

Tater

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Getting ready to start a RO CGII and after making my purchases I had 1CPP left over. What would you spend this 1CPP on??

I have already made my choice.
OBA...just having the SR down has an effect...the enemy forces generally scatter when an SR is near by. This will help keep the Germans from massing up large FG's.
 

AZslim

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Don't have RO yet, but I think MOL-P's in reserve are good buy in RB. Anti tank capability, smoke, and extra crews if needed in case a Gun loses one.
 

Vinnie

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For 1CPP, I would go with an OBA module. Not only is it useful for breaking concentrations, but it can be kept from day to day by keeping it as a SR
 

xenovin

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SAN bump is nice but you have no control over it while you can drop a SR in the middle of a German attack sector and watch them run for cover!
 

Tater

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Don't have RO yet, but I think MOL-P's in reserve are good buy in RB. Anti tank capability, smoke, and extra crews if needed in case a Gun loses one.
I have used the MOL-P before...difficult TH...and you have to remember to fire them first in any fire phase...the added crew are OK.
 

The Purist

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SAN bump is nice but you have no control over it while you can drop a SR in the middle of a German attack sector and watch them run for cover!
If you were talking about a SAN bump from 3 to 4 or even 4 to 5, I might agree. A SAN of 6 has a potential to do harm far out of proportion to the 1 point (a 9-2 or 10-2 dropping dead). The problem w/ OBA is the Red Army draw pile - 5B/2R for argument sake. It would come as a surprise to no one if only one fire mission was successfully obtained.

As for scattering a German attack,... I'm not so sure. Not stacking, maintaining '?' by use of aslt mov/adv, using buildings with upper levels as cover, etc., can lessen the effective application of Russian OBA (and German to be fair). I would look long and hard at the CG Dates' chance of getting scarce ammunition before purchasing artillery over a SAN of 6

Your mileage may very.
 

Tater

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As for scattering a German attack,... I'm not so sure. Not stacking, maintaining '?' by use of aslt mov/adv, using buildings with upper levels as cover, etc., can lessen the effective application of Russian OBA (and German to be fair).
You kind of made my point...if the presence of an SR makes the German do the above then you never have to bring down the FFE and you can retain the OBA. Bumping the SAN to a 6 means you could drop at least 1 maybe 2 in SAN during the next RePH.
 

jrv

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If you were talking about a SAN bump from 3 to 4 or even 4 to 5, I might agree. A SAN of 6 has a potential to do harm far out of proportion to the 1 point (a 9-2 or 10-2 dropping dead).
An increase in SAN by one increases the expected number of SAN activations by 1 in 36 DRs, whether the increase is from 2 to 3 or 6 to 7.

The problem w/ OBA is the Red Army draw pile - 5B/2R for argument sake. It would come as a surprise to no one if only one fire mission was successfully obtained.
The 5:2 draw pile results in exactly one mission 9.52% of the time, while the 8:3 draw pile results in exactly one mission 15.15% of the time. That extra red chit hurts more than the extra black chits help for that particular statistic. On average the 5:2 draw pile has 3.33 missions before double-redding while the 8:3 draw pile makes 4 missions before double-redding, so in that particular statistic the 8:3 is better.

JR
 

The Purist

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An increase in SAN by one increases the expected number of SAN activations by 1 in 36 DRs, whether the increase is from 2 to 3 or 6 to 7.
But you are not just rolling the die once across the life of a scenario or campaign date. I'm sure you and others have tracked all the DR through the phases that can possibly activate a sniper and the number of times a 6 is rolled over a 2 (3, 4 or 5) becomes evident. A high SAN will (normally) be far more effective than a low SAN. You still need a 1 or 2 for the attack but that can only happen if the SAN is achieved first.

The 5:2 draw pile results in exactly one mission 9.52% of the time, while the 8:3 draw pile results in exactly one mission 15.15% of the time. That extra red chit hurts more than the extra black chits help for that particular statistic. On average the 5:2 draw pile has 3.33 missions before double-redding while the 8:3 draw pile makes 4 missions before double-redding, so in that particular statistic the 8:3 is better.
OBA is always something of a crap shoot , which at the company level is probably not that far off the mark. Whenever I am the Russians I almost hope for red card on the first draw. I cannot even recall how many times in RB or regular scenarios where my valiant Red Army gunners fail to drop a single SR on the map - which is just bad luck, and perhaps not all that far off the mark. I can only recall one instance where my Brit gunners (8B/2R), for example, failed me with a double red.

Nevertheless, I would still argue the SAN 6 is the better buy without more detailed information on the CG situation.

Opinions (tactics) will vary.
 
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The Purist

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You kind of made my point...if the presence of an SR makes the German do the above then you never have to bring down the FFE and you can retain the OBA. Bumping the SAN to a 6 means you could drop at least 1 maybe 2 in SAN during the next RePH.
Fair cop but I rarely stack under even the best conditions much less if the other side has OBA. Since an SR can't hurt you, scout HSs can still DASH across roads to draw fire or strip concealment while '?' 8 morale troopers aslt mov/adv through the buildings.

Opinions vary, of course, but I don't want to derail Smedley's thread. ;)
 

jrv

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But you are not just rolling the die once across the life of a scenario or campaign date. I'm sure you and others have tracked all the DR through the phases that can possibly activate a sniper and the number of times a 6 is rolled over a 2 (3, 4 or 5) becomes evident. A high SAN will (normally) be far more effective than a low SAN. You still need a 1 or 2 for the attack but that can only happen if the SAN is achieved first.
A higher SAN will be more effective than a lower SAN: that seems obvious. What may not be apparent is that the increase in the number of a due to moving a two SAN to a three SAN is the same as from a five SAN to a six SAN, i.e. the SAN activates on 1/36 more DRs. The increase in activations is linear with the SAN number.

JR
 

The Purist

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A higher SAN will be more effective than a lower SAN: that seems obvious. What may not be apparent is that the increase in the number of a due to moving a two SAN to a three SAN is the same as from a five SAN to a six SAN, i.e. the SAN activates on 1/36 more DRs. The increase in activations is linear with the SAN number....
JR,.... this is all fine and good but lets not get too far down into the weeds on this. In the scope of this single campaign game date and the availability of 1 CPP, what will be more damaging to the German attacker?

Two, perhaps (w/ good luck) three, FFE from 12 or 16 FP in a heavily urban environment against (comparatively) high morale troops?

Or a SAN of 6 (which does not care about morale, class/type of unit or building DRM)?

In my considered view (for what it is worth) Smedley would be better served by the SAN increase.

I am very keen to find out what choice is made and how it works out?
 

Philippe D.

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JR,.... this is all fine and good but lets not get too far down into the weeds on this. In the scope of this single campaign game date and the availability of 1 CPP, what will be more damaging to the German attacker?

Two, perhaps (w/ good luck) three, FFE from 12 or 16 FP in a heavily urban environment against (comparatively) high morale troops?

Or a SAN of 6 (which does not care about morale, class/type of unit or building DRM)?
What JR points out is that your 1 CPP does not get you SAN 6 by itself - it changes a SAN 5 into a SAN 6.

SAN 6 is likely to hit several times over the course of a scenario, sure - but so is SAN 5. What matters is the difference that it brings - which, as JR correctly calculates, is an increase in DRs that hit your SAN of 1 out of 36 DRs - 1 out of 108 if you count the activation dr. That's the same difference as between SAN 0 and SAN 2, or between SAN 2 and SAN 3, which is something many people are likely to forget.
 
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JR Brackin

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I know that this is not a popular one, but I chose the pre-reg hex. And since all of these are situational and the last purchase I presume that there is OBA selected and that OBA has a task the purchaser has in mind for it.

If you are the attacker, then you know where you want to attack you can get that OBA right into the action on T1 Prep with a high chance of accuracy. If you are the defender, the same goes if you can figure out a main avenue of attack.

I am not a fan of SAN's over 4 since they never seem to bring the expected or hoped for results - at least for me. Adding another OBA module would be nice, but presuming I have one, that might come in handy for later - of course I could forgo its use and have it for a later CG date. I almost never save it - I always believe that i need it that day. Since I did not know the attacker/defender situation the Forts were not a real choice -- however in the defensive they always help. But that said I want my OBA to cause those casualties and the pre-reg holds up for me.
 
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