Red Barricades map issues
- Thread starter Fort
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Justiciar
Elder Member
Do you mean like buildings that need "building back up" or "rubbling down" or "better shaped like ..." or "missing buildings" or missing gullies, and the like? This based off better historical data and the like.
Proff3RTR
Elder Member
If that is what he means, there are a lot or 'Rebuilds & also de-builds' that need doing in the RB original map.
I will look over some original air photo's later and see what I can come up with.
I will look over some original air photo's later and see what I can come up with.
Gunner Scott
Forum Guru
I would like too see a lot of VoTG stuff included, like AFV wreck recovery, VotG recall rules, Strong points, allow the Russians the possibility of night attacks. As far as cosmetic, I really don't think that is necessary and most of it is so minor, only an anal retentive historian might have issues but the rest of us dont.
Scott
Scott
klasmalmstrom
Forum Guru
My guess would be that the RB map will stay pretty much the same.
The map is being repainted. I'm more interested in correct building names, locations and demolition status than anything else.
With the fall of the Soviet Union and the recent deluge of previously unavailable information we want to make this map as accurate as possible.
The only change I have for sure is de-rubbling the chemists shop.
I am asking if there are any other areas that might be improved.
Thanks All
Most of this will be done in a future Journal article.
Proff3RTR
Elder Member
That is what i would like to see, a proper as close as you can get to map of the RB area, info is out there, just need the time etc to do it.
Stacks
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Building AA25 we think is in error, we have the last 20 years used a pencil to make Hexes BB24-25 more regular-normale-looking, we do not like that you can fire from BB24 to BB26 and beyond or vice versa.
Justiciar
Elder Member
PM sent to your non-GS address.
Proff3RTR
Elder Member
That is the School house or Kinderhause as the Germans called it, it was to the south of the Apotheke by roughly 50 odd meters, it is the correct shape as well, and in the right place, only problem is the size, it is a bit too big, it should be same shape but a 1 hex building with a single level 0 location.
DWPetros
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I believe that Leaping Horseman books released a very accurate book sometime ago, showing the Red Barricades area. Charlie's original map was very close, but there were some notable changes that he might want to take a look at. Someone here doubtlessly has a link or map to share from that publisher.
Proff3RTR
Elder Member
ok,
Here is the initial changes as per aerial photographs dated around 6/7th October 1942:
Bread factory area:
All Wooden buildings on and East of Hexrow W and south of the main East-West Gully (Historically known as Gun Factory Gully-German= Geschutzfabrik-Rachel& Russian= Ovrag Khvost or Tall gully), should be rubbled.
Bread factory itself:
Pretty much bang on, no need to change anything except Building H41 looks like it should be Gutted. And the 3 multi Hex North to south buildings in hex rows U & V should be rubbled, (By Hubertus that whole area was flattened totally).
RB itself:
The debris field in the south-west corner of the factory grounds centered on hex J32 should really have a series of lopped railways that join up and head north towards the DTW along the west side of the RB factory grounds, also a rail line should run alongside the N hexrow road between the factories, coming from the debris field area (this area was a rail marshaling depot) and running alongside the n road from hex N29 upto Hex N5 then splitting east and west to link up with the western track that is running north towards the DTW and in the east lopping around the o8 factory and entering that factory and also the main Q14 factory on the east side at two points.
Factory building M10 should be fliped over and rotated 90 degrees left so the long part that is now East-West with the square stair way at hex J13 is now North south with the stairwell now in hex M14
Building L5 needs to be moved down 1 hexrow to L6/M7/N6, the rubble in J5/K6 needs to be moved south 1 hex as well to allow the rail line to link up.
East of the barrikaddy:
all the houses on Pribaltiskaya Street (Hexrow W15) need to be of stone construction form V19-X19 upto and including V12-X11), also these had in the main lost thier 1st floors so they need to have single hex multi level buildings, 2 locations (Lvl0 & 1) but the Lvl 1 needs to have a reduced TEM, say +2 only to represent the rubble and some remains of walls. the building in Hex BB17 is Haus 81 as the Germans called it or Dom 63 as the Russians called it, it was stone and in the game should be a single hex, multi level location with a Lvl0 & a Lvl 1 locatio17 was again stone (workers park cinema projection house) and again should have two locations.
All wooden buildings east of the barrikaddy should be rubbled.
Lyudnikov's Hq location is hex DD9 (should be a small stone location there. His Observation post known as the Red house and should be stone & 2 lvls.
In hexes GG26/GG25/HH25?HH24 there should be a Level0 angular shape (this represents the oil reservoir that was there and smashed up) no wooden buildings.
that is just a quick go, I started rebuilding RB some time ago. But lots going on so it is on the back burner.
Here is the initial changes as per aerial photographs dated around 6/7th October 1942:
Bread factory area:
All Wooden buildings on and East of Hexrow W and south of the main East-West Gully (Historically known as Gun Factory Gully-German= Geschutzfabrik-Rachel& Russian= Ovrag Khvost or Tall gully), should be rubbled.
Bread factory itself:
Pretty much bang on, no need to change anything except Building H41 looks like it should be Gutted. And the 3 multi Hex North to south buildings in hex rows U & V should be rubbled, (By Hubertus that whole area was flattened totally).
RB itself:
The debris field in the south-west corner of the factory grounds centered on hex J32 should really have a series of lopped railways that join up and head north towards the DTW along the west side of the RB factory grounds, also a rail line should run alongside the N hexrow road between the factories, coming from the debris field area (this area was a rail marshaling depot) and running alongside the n road from hex N29 upto Hex N5 then splitting east and west to link up with the western track that is running north towards the DTW and in the east lopping around the o8 factory and entering that factory and also the main Q14 factory on the east side at two points.
Factory building M10 should be fliped over and rotated 90 degrees left so the long part that is now East-West with the square stair way at hex J13 is now North south with the stairwell now in hex M14
Building L5 needs to be moved down 1 hexrow to L6/M7/N6, the rubble in J5/K6 needs to be moved south 1 hex as well to allow the rail line to link up.
East of the barrikaddy:
all the houses on Pribaltiskaya Street (Hexrow W15) need to be of stone construction form V19-X19 upto and including V12-X11), also these had in the main lost thier 1st floors so they need to have single hex multi level buildings, 2 locations (Lvl0 & 1) but the Lvl 1 needs to have a reduced TEM, say +2 only to represent the rubble and some remains of walls. the building in Hex BB17 is Haus 81 as the Germans called it or Dom 63 as the Russians called it, it was stone and in the game should be a single hex, multi level location with a Lvl0 & a Lvl 1 locatio17 was again stone (workers park cinema projection house) and again should have two locations.
All wooden buildings east of the barrikaddy should be rubbled.
Lyudnikov's Hq location is hex DD9 (should be a small stone location there. His Observation post known as the Red house and should be stone & 2 lvls.
In hexes GG26/GG25/HH25?HH24 there should be a Level0 angular shape (this represents the oil reservoir that was there and smashed up) no wooden buildings.
that is just a quick go, I started rebuilding RB some time ago. But lots going on so it is on the back burner.
Proff3RTR
Elder Member
These links are untouchable, they are pretty much it as far as i am concerned
http://www.wwii-photos-maps.com/stalingradaerialscans/
Perry
Jeff Waldon
Member
God bless the detail-oriented historians among us.
Justiciar
Elder Member
Perry,
Jeff was being genuine in his remark, he is a Marine. Master Gunnery Sergeants are detailed oriented folk.
He was making a counter-point to a certain "forumite" further upstream.
Jeff has helped a certain other detailed-oriented historian among us on other occasions in the past and not just on ASL but the real version of it too.
Proff3RTR
Elder Member
And I was not picking bones with him, Just laying my own PoV on it, as I would like to see a 100% bang on RB map.
Tater
Elder Member
If the plan is to use gutted building in the Red Factory maps, can we please make the art work clear...on the VotG maps you have to use a magnifying glass to make sure the gutted building artwork is present or not.
And that is a general request as well...sometime the artwork on CG maps are not as clear as they need to be.
And that is a general request as well...sometime the artwork on CG maps are not as clear as they need to be.