Questions related to "Stranger in a Strange Land," ASL75

djohannsen

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#1
I suggested to a friend that we play ASL75, "Strangers in a Strange Land," for our next get together (after all, it's a classic). As I look over the scenario card, I have a couple of questions that I hope people will help me with.

The first couple of questions have to do with SSR 5. "The normal Inherent MF, and printed MP, allotment of all French units is halved during the first turn."

So, this raises a couple of uncertain points for me. If a MMC Infantry unit declares double time, am I correct that it would get four MF. It's Inherent is halved and then two bonus for going CX. This seems the correct reading of the rules rather than saying: "the unit, if double timing, would have 6MF and this is halved to three." So, do I have this correct?

Now, how about units moving in a stack with a leader? Normally, the leader would confer a 2MF bonus. But, if a MMC halves its Inherent MF and then adds 2MF bonus (a total of 4MF), this would give it more MF than a leader SMC would have if moving individually (six halved is 3MF) without double timing. This seems a little strange...

Now, the whole enchilada, how does SSR 5 apply to MMC units moving with a SMC leader and double timing on this first game turn? Allowing 6MF seems a bit strange, but this is how I (a novice) read the distinction between "Inherent" and "Bonus" MF.

I don't know that the French need to be in all that big a hurry, as the scenario is eight turns, but I would feel better if I understood this.

The second question pertains to Ground Snow (by SSR 1, Ground Snow is in effect), in particular to Infantry moving through a gully. E3.723 says that Infantry must expend one extra MF per elevation level change (up/down). Would it then cost infantry 4 MF (2MF to enter plus 2MF for the elevation changes) plus double the cost of terrain on the far side to cross a gully? Just smack me upside the head if I don't have this right.

Thank you for any help.

Dave0
 

clubby

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#2
I think the 2MF bonus would also be halved. It really wouldn't matter though because like you said the leader only has 3 MF so that's as far as they could go with him.

I think it would be 3 MF to enter the gully (2MF + 1MF for going down 1 level in ground snow). To exit the gully it would be 2x COT + 1MF for going uphill in ground snow. So exit into OG would also be 3MF. Exiting into woods would be 4MF + 1MF Ground Snow.

I think. :D
 

djohannsen

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#3
I think the 2MF bonus would also be halved. It really wouldn't matter though because like you said the leader only has 3 MF so that's as far as they could go with him.
It's hard to figure out an interpretation that doesn't lead to something unsatisfying. The SSR does say "Inherent MF." So, does he halving also apply to double time? (In which case, only a fool would double time on the first game turn, as it's still a long way to the "armory.") I know that there is no road movement bonus with Ground Snow (even though the roads are plowed), but just trying to figure out how long it will take the French to get close to the "armory" (and, hence, how long they can dawdle on the way).

I think on the gully question we said the same thing. What I wrote was tortured enough that I'm not entirely sure. :D I think that I was thinking along the right lines, so that's good news.

Thanks for the help, sir.


Dave
 

Binchois

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#4
Hi guys!

I would definitely agree regarding the snow effects. I've played quite a few snow scenarios this year, and have played them all as you described.

As for the SSR. I hate to disagree with Clubby, but alas! I do in this case...

Absent any special, Special Rule, I don't see any reason to alter the leader bonus or to restrict CX/double time options. Any unit which declares double time gains the 1 or 2 MFs only at the end of their move...that is, only after they have expended all of their Inherent MFs. Why change that here?

As for the leader bonus, it doesn't really matter that the leader seems to have less MFs than a MMC with leader bonus since a leader's bonus only applies so long as the MMC stays with a leader. As Clubby said, an MMC could only gain 1MF (since the leader only has 3MF), but the 2MF bonus would still be useful for an encumbered MMC (carrying 5 PPs) and would also be useful for determining possible Assault Movement or APh advances...

In short, if the SSR doesn't say no, then the rules should still apply! (Leader and Double Time bonuses are not "Inherent").
 
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clubby

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#5
OK, here's my next question. Double Time has to be announced before you enter the board at the start of your MPh. Doesn't that increase your movement allotment to 6MF and then it is reduced to 3? I'm just having a hard time getting the mechanics. Because you wouldn't declare you were Double Timing after your movement started. In the case of late Double Time you would, but that still only adds 1.
 

Binchois

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#6
OK, here's my next question. Double Time has to be announced before you enter the board at the start of your MPh. Doesn't that increase your movement allotment to 6MF and then it is reduced to 3? I'm just having a hard time getting the mechanics. Because you wouldn't declare you were Double Timing after your movement started. In the case of late Double Time you would, but that still only adds 1.
I would say that the Inherent MF of a MMC is 4 halved to 2 MF and that of a SMC is 6 halved to 3. Double Time still adds 2MF to each if announced at the onset of their move, 1 MF if announced later. The SSR would not (IMO) half the bonus - nor would it affect a leader bonus or road bonus. This since the SSR says that only the French units' "Normal Inherent MF" is halved.

There is a problem in that the RB never seems to define a unit's "Inherent MFs", rather it discusses "movement allotments" which "may be increased, decreased, or restricted by certain circumstances." (A4.1)

The index defines "Inherent" as follows:

Inherent: Any capability included within a Counter with no need to Be represented by another counter;
Not entirely helpful, but I think that the SSR uses the word "Normal Inherent MF" cinches that only the basic MFs are adjusted... additional bonuses can be added at their full amounts.
 

Larry

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#7
The MMC has 2 MF inherent. The leader gives it 2 more. Now the MMC has 4. But it can only expend the extra 2 while moving as a stack. Absent CX, the leader is done at 3. So is the MMC. The MMC goes cx and the leader does not. The MMC is done at 3. The leader and the MMC go CX, they are both done at 5. The leader goes cx and the MMC does not. The MMC is done at 4.
 

von Marwitz

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#8
OK, here's my next question. Double Time has to be announced before you enter the board at the start of your MPh. Doesn't that increase your movement allotment to 6MF and then it is reduced to 3? I'm just having a hard time getting the mechanics. Because you wouldn't declare you were Double Timing after your movement started. In the case of late Double Time you would, but that still only adds 1.
As I understand it, the "normal inherent MF of units is reduced".

IMHO inherent means what a unit has to offer without any bonus MF. So 6MF for SMC, 4MF for MMC and 3MF for Conscripts/Green w/o Leader. This understanding - I believe - is reinforced by the SSR stating that the normal MF are reduced. What would be non-normal MF, one may ask? The most probable answer ist non-normal is everyting which somehow alters the basic MF allotment.

So, a SMC would have 3 MF, a MMC 2 MF and a Conscript 1.5 MF.
CX could raise this to 5MF, 4MF, 3.5MF
Road bonus would apply normally.
Leader-Bonus would also apply normally.

von Marwitz
 

djohannsen

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#9
As I understand it, the "normal inherent MF of units is reduced".
Road bonus would apply normally.
The Ground Snow rules, E3.723 and following, specifically state no road bonus for Infantry movement, even if plowed.

As for the other halved movement, you guys are saying things very similar to what I was thinking. "Inherent," to a beginner like me, means just the 4MF for a MMC, and the bonus movement factors are not affected by the SSR. This did, however, leave me wondering on the leader bonus, as a leader applying his movement bonus to a MMC could travel farther with the squad than with his own Inherent (halved) MF. Ultimately, for this scenario, one hex difference shouldn't matter; I am just hoping to gain better understanding of the rules.

Thank you to everyone.


Dave
 

Binchois

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#10
The Ground Snow rules, E3.723 and following, specifically state no road bonus for Infantry movement, even if plowed.

As for the other halved movement, you guys are saying things very similar to what I was thinking. "Inherent," to a beginner like me, means just the 4MF for a MMC, and the bonus movement factors are not affected by the SSR. This did, however, leave me wondering on the leader bonus, as a leader applying his movement bonus to a MMC could travel farther with the squad than with his own Inherent (halved) MF...
I am glad we seem to have reached a consensus here. I can certainly see how the leader bonus problem led you to question the SSR (perhaps it could have clarified this better).

As I said above, however, the 2MF leader bonus could still be useful even though the leader's normal MF allotment is just 1MF more than the average MMC. This is particularly true to help with encumbered MMC, but could also help if the MMC wanted to perform some in-hex, 1MF action (SMOKE, picking up a SW, entering a shell hole...)

Oh, of course you're right about road bonuses not applying - I think we're too focused on the SSR ramifications to notice the snow!
 
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djohannsen

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#11
OK, here's my next question. Double Time has to be announced before you enter the board at the start of your MPh. Doesn't that increase your movement allotment to 6MF and then it is reduced to 3?
This was an interpretation that I toyed with for a while before settling on the "Normal Inherent" phrase in the SSR.

I think, also that I've settled on the SMC/MMC stack only having 5MF if moving as a stack and double timing (as the leader only has 3MF and must remain with the stack for the entire movement in order to gain the bonus).

Again, thank you to everyone for helping me to figure this out. I doubt that one MF more or less will affect the outcome of the scenario (especially when weighed against my bumbling noob'ness in playing it), but this learning to carefully parse the rules certainly is helpful for me to learn ASL. Maybe in the not too distant future I won't have to impose novice rules questions on the forum with my current frequency. :oops:


Dave
 

volgaG68

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#13
I suggested to a friend that we play ASL75, "Strangers in a Strange Land," for our next get together (after all, it's a classic).
One of my favorite little scenarios of all time. Likely stemming from nostalgia and lack of French scenarios back then. Just a neat, little action.
 

djohannsen

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#14
One of my favorite little scenarios of all time. Likely stemming from nostalgia and lack of French scenarios back then. Just a neat, little action.
I am pushing French scenarios on all my friends - got to trot out those little blue guys! Thank you.

The scenario looks neat to me. After all, how many times is one side's entire OoB set-up HiP?! That those crazy Germans can scale the outside wall of the "armory" is an added bonus (though I have a hard time imagining a situation where the climbing will actually enter into play).
 

buser333

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#15
I am pushing French scenarios on all my friends - got to trot out those little blue guys! Thank you.

The scenario looks neat to me. After all, how many times is one side's entire OoB set-up HiP?! That those crazy Germans can scale the outside wall of the "armory" is an added bonus (though I have a hard time imagining a situation where the climbing will actually enter into play).
Yes, and remember that the Germans who have commando abilities would possibly not be subjected to upper level encirclement.