Question time Trail break in Woods Roads

[aneil1234]

G'day

Something came up todat that had us stumped

So A Shermie drives using all its MP (less one to start and stop etc) ?into the woods part of a Woods-road hex, passes his Bog and all is good. Most importantly on the very nice new partail Trail Break his bashed through the trees (Don't tell Greenpeace BTW ) Real good Huh????

So next turn comes about, and the Shermie decides It doesn't want to now go forward and enter a new hex.
Instead it wants to go back to the road where it statrted in the first place
So I just assumes a quick "Start in reverse" and edge back out into the road again............................
Seems "Simples" Huh ??!!#

Well no, not really
Cause the great tome seems to not think this is a thing

So heres the queries
a/ can you do it (personnaly seems odd you can't ? and it seems odd too that we are the first ever to think of this ? - Damned if I can find any answers out there.... but that's another issue lol)_

Oh and seeing you can create a TB in reverse............ seems silly you can't drive off one thats already there in reverse ?

b/ If you can, How many MP would it cost. ? Its NOT like your entering a new hex ?? So not paying cost to enter the hex or ???..... Your'e sorta kind already there. Hell if the Commander looks behind him he can see the road no more than 10-15m or so behind him through the now bashed down trees)

c/ Does the TB go away as its not finished

d/If you can't do this How does it work the other way when you driving into a Woods-Road hex (from the bushy-treey bit) and then DRIVING UP THE ROAD ? Does a partial TB lead to the road ? and THEN if you leave via a non-road bit the TB gets finished as a complete one again as you leave via a NON Roads bit "Crossing the T" to steal a naval term (Which is what I have done in the past and now question myself

Thanks to everyone out there

 

[A_T_Great]

It doesn't specifically say you can't do that, but if you can I would play it this way. No bog, because you are on a partial trailbreak, but minimum move because you are moving in reverse (quadrupled MPs) and you are moving in woods on a trailbreak (1/2 MP)

 

[Eagle4ty]

There is no penalty for exit of a woods hex [EXC: If a fully-tracked AFV enters a woods hex via an already existing TB counter and then exits via a hexside not covered by that TB counter, it must first undergo a Bog DR for exiting the woods without using a TB.]. So if the AFV were to use reverse movement to move out of the woods in the same direction of the created TB only the usual reverse movement for COT to enter the new hex would be applicable. The partial TB would obviously left in the woods hex as intimated & there would be no additional cost for the reversing AFV to use the TB because there is only a cost for entering ON a TB. Think of it similar to a unit that starts set up in a woods hex but in this case has an existing TB marker that in most cases means very little for its reverse movement.

 

[A_T_Great]

There is no penalty for exit of a woods hex [EXC: If a fully-tracked AFV enters a woods hex via an already existing TB counter and then exits via a hexside not covered by that TB counter, it must first undergo a Bog DR for exiting the woods without using a TB.]. So if the AFV were to use reverse movement to move out of the woods in the same direction of the created TB only the usual reverse movement + COT to enter the new hex would be applicable. The partial TB would obviously left in the woods hex as intimated & there would be no additional cost for the reversing AFV to use the TB because there is only a cost for entering ON a TB. Think of it similar to a unit that starts set up in a woods hex but in this case has an existing TB marker that in most cases means very little for its reverse movement.

You're right! I guess I wasn't thinking of it that way, because the hex is not being exited. The tank is just moving back onto the road. But thos does make moee sense.

 

[SLAKslayer]

I once had someone tell me to focus on what the rules allow as the game isnt 'reality'

Looking at it again, b13.41 says you can use 'this method' (entering a new woods hex) to move off the road and b13.421 seems to say that the only option from there is "once a vehicle leaves the hex via another hexside". It doesnt seem to allow you to move like so into the same hex. Ie, B13.41 lets you move off road in the same hex, but there is no allowance to move onto the road in your hex that i can see. One could argue that you might not even be allowed to leave a trailbreak because you have not entered a new hex (trailbreaks are B13.42 not .41).

Nothing i can find allows you to move back onto the road in the same hex, which (if my friend's 'only what the rules allow' idea is to be followed) seems to indicate that the only acceptable path is to exit into the next hex as a trailbreak. So if you want to do it this way, you should place a trailbreak heading in the same direction as the road and your only allowable action then is to move to a new hex. So if you want to get back on the road then you finish the trailbreak into the next road hex and then you enter that hex and are back onto the road (maybe even at needing another bog if your opponent sucks). So what you are doing is laying a trailbreak following the road's path.

If your super nice, awesome, kind, wonderful and accommodating opponent allowed you to place a trailbreak when you moved off road (which b13.41 doesnt seem to say that you place a TB when you do this, all b13.42 is about entering a new hex, not moving off into your own) then that nice opponent might let you reverse, using the half trailbreak you laid down when you moved off road to reverse back onto it, which would be 1/2 or all of your movement but with no chance to bog. That fits with what the rules allow (ie you are using the trailbreak rules which DO exist and allow reverse movement, not working out how to lay another trailbreak or look for ways to move out of a woods into your own hex).

All of which makes no sense in reality. as you'd just be 3 meters to the side of the road, ready and waiting for next turn to get back on the road once the other guy had passed you.(not even needing to reverse, IMHO) (maybe this is the 'you dont leave a trailbreak' option in reality?)

Sometimes i think life is too short for ASL rules and the i curse the lack of a wiki for rules questions like this. eyeroll

TLDR: shrugs

 

[Eagle4ty]

You're right! I guess I wasn't thinking of it that way, because the hex is not being exited. The tank is just moving back onto the road. But thos does make moee sense.

Note: In the original post of mine I incorrectly put "+"COT but meant for COT and have corrected that.

I once had someone tell me to focus on what the rules allow as the game isnt 'reality'

Looking at it again, b13.41 says you can use 'this method' (entering a new woods hex) to move off the road and b13.421 seems to say that the only option from there is "once a vehicle leaves the hex via another hexside". It doesnt seem to allow you to move like so into the same hex. Ie, B13.41 lets you move off road in the same hex, but there is no allowance to move onto the road in your hex that i can see. One could argue that you might not even be allowed to leave a trailbreak because you have not entered a new hex (trailbreaks are B13.42 not .41).

Nothing i can find allows you to move back onto the road in the same hex, which (if my friend's 'only what the rules allow' idea is to be followed) seems to indicate that the only acceptable path is to exit into the next hex as a trailbreak. So if you want to do it this way, you should place a trailbreak heading in the same direction as the road and your only allowable action then is to move to a new hex. So if you want to get back on the road then you finish the trailbreak into the next road hex and then you enter that hex and are back onto the road (maybe even at needing another bog if your opponent sucks). So what you are doing is laying a trailbreak following the road's path.

If your super nice, awesome, kind, wonderful and accommodating opponent allowed you to place a trailbreak when you moved off road (which b13.41 doesnt seem to say that you place a TB when you do this, all b13.42 is about entering a new hex, not moving off into your own) then that nice opponent might let you reverse, using the half trailbreak you laid down when you moved off road to reverse back onto it, which would be 1/2 or all of your movement but with no chance to bog. That fits with what the rules allow (ie you are using the trailbreak rules which DO exist and allow reverse movement, not working out how to lay another trailbreak or look for ways to move out of a woods into your own hex).

All of which makes no sense in reality. as you'd just be 3 meters to the side of the road, ready and waiting for next turn to get back on the road once the other guy had passed you.(not even needing to reverse, IMHO) (maybe this is the 'you dont leave a trailbreak' option in reality?)

Sometimes i think life is too short for ASL rules and the i curse the lack of a wiki for rules questions like this. eyeroll

TLDR: shrugs

There is only a single location in the woods-road hex regardless of being on a TB in the woods portion of it and once leaving that hex/condition, by either forward or reverse movement, you do not have to pay MPs to enter the hex you're in to enter the road portion. Should the AFV even enter another woods-road hex it would be considered as on the road [EXC: if entering another woods-road hex across a non-road hexside] unless stated by the moving player that they wished otherwise. B3.41 & B13.31