Question Re Victory Conditions

Eric Weider

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I am a EA newbie...the scenario notes state the players should decide in advance of the game what consititutes victory...I am sorry but I don't get that.
The notes state that each player begins the game with an equal 475 VPS and that they should agree what the vicotry conditions will be... how do other players handle this issue? does the game not automatically calculate Victory levels based on relative points?? Thanks for your help!!

:nuts:
 

Chuck?

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I guess it means the players can decide not to use the victory points to determine victory. Maybe the capitals are used instead.

For example if the Axis capture Paris, Moscow, and Stalingrad they get a OV. If the Allies capture Berlin they get a OV. Anything else would be a draw.
 

Eric Weider

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Chuck said:
I guess it means the players can decide not to use the victory points to determine victory. Maybe the capitals are used instead.

For example if the Axis capture Paris, Moscow, and Stalingrad they get a OV. If the Allies capture Berlin they get a OV. Anything else would be a draw.
which system do most people use...the one chuck describes above or or Vicotry points? thanks for you help!!
 

Mark Stevens

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I know it's a shocking piece of buck-passing, but Ulver and I were serious when we recommended that you choose your own victory conditions.

The game isn't 'balanced' like most scenarios, but attempts to put the players in the same positions as the Axis and Allies at the start of WWII, with the same type and number of troops and other resources, and the same strategic options and opportunities. It isn't intended to be fair, although if Germany can simply romp all over the map in a few years it isn't accurate.

Ignoring it's many failings in this attempt, what is 'victory' in a monster scenario like this? Historically, Germany surrendered in early May 1945 after the fall of Berlin, so you could well argue that hanging on until June 1945 represents a moral victory of sorts for the Axis player. This is how 'Third Reich' views it.

Equally well you could argue that only the defeat and occupation of the United Kingdom and the USSR would have been an Axis victory in reality.

Or, a middle course, the Axis estabishment of a permanent defensible perimeter on Continental Europe, perhaps excluding the United Kingdom and with the USSR or a successor state still fighting on in the East, but with sufficient sources of manpower and other resources to prolong the war indefinitely (US atomic weapons excluded unless a hasty German reseach programme...).

Including the points balancing track was a way of measuring how both players are doing in relative terms, but I wouldn't like to say that the player who ends up with 476 points to the other's 474 has won a resounding victory.

This isn't much help: what do other players look for?
 

Eric Weider

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thank you mark! i tend to feel that the Victory points will probably do an adequate job of determing a winner and that is what my opponent and I have selected. this is my first shot at EA and i am looking forward to it. thanks for all the work you put into it!
 

Mark Stevens

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Thanks, I hope you find it worthwhile: it is a big beast, but a lot of players have contributed ideas over the last few years and I really think we're getting there.

If - as a 'newbie' - you have any fresh thoughts, do post them here or contact me directly.

And do agree any contentious points with your oppponent before you start!
 

Eric Weider

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mark - i'll certainly be pleased to offer you any "newbie" feedback. my opponent and i have reviewed all the optional rules and have agreed up front on them as well as using the VP's to determine vicotry. thanks for all the work you have done to make this game possible!!
 

SkyVon

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LOL, I've yet to see a game even come to this points. It's either a OV one way or the other. Now though, in my gave vs Jason, we may actually come to that point as we're entering the winter of '42 and both Russia and German are deadlocked and exhausted along a huge front stretching from Moscow to Stalingrad. The Axis have been getting stronger these past few months while at the same time draining the Ruskies whenever possible. The US/UK have tried to unsuccessful invasions (Norway & Spain) with the Axis now heavily reinforcing France & Spain. German supply is still pretty high and Jason reports his is still quite low, so this baby may actually go the distance. I just figured that whatever the game says on turn ###, thats the result. Though I see your point as I'm sure at some time in this game, the Germans and Russians would come to the table leaving all of western Europe under German control.
 
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