Question on Pursuit Mission (again!)

afantozzi

Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
92
Reaction score
11
Location
Milan
First name
Andrea
Country
llItaly
Hi,
I know that this same question has been already posted but I cannot grasp the setup of ENEMY S? in this Mission.
What I do not understand is the meaning of:
Black S? are placed as follows:
"...One in each road hex west of the Road-Network Bridge"
1) Does this mean that every road hex that is part of the Road-Network and that is also west of the Bridge receives a Black Suspect Counter?
2) What if the Road-Network has two o more Bridges? Which one should I consider?

Next, the part following the "or" makes really no sense to me. It is not clear of what "bridge" it is speaking. It seems to refer to "some other bridge". Also, "predominantly" is not something explained by the rules... And, finally, I think this situation will never arise since the Road-Network MUST have a Bridge (this is required by the Mission). Simply there cannot be a Road Network not contaning a bridge.

Finally, with respect to Grey S?, how do you read "every other Road Network hex"? Does it mean "Place Grey S? one in every other hex"? I mean one yes and one no...

What am I missing? Has someone maybe an example in VASL?
I know these are a lot of questions! Thanks to all who will have the patience to reply.
Andrea
 

JDDJS

Recruit
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
12
Reaction score
9
Location
Grenoble
Country
llFrance
Hi,

1) Correct, place a black s? on each hex of the Road network which is > 3 hexes from FBE and West of the Road network bridge (S13.2311) . Don' forget about the subsequent placement of grey S?
2) Do as you want. dr 1-3 : consider eastern bridge ; 4 -6 : consider western bridge


Good luck !
 

afantozzi

Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
92
Reaction score
11
Location
Milan
First name
Andrea
Country
llItaly
Hi,

1) Correct, place a black s? on each hex of the Road network which is > 3 hexes from FBE and West of the Road network bridge (S13.2311) . Don' forget about the subsequent placement of grey S?
2) Do as you want. dr 1-3 : consider eastern bridge ; 4 -6 : consider western bridge


Good luck !
Thanks... Now let's see some opinions about the "or" part of the setup instructions...
 

Arch71

Member
Joined
May 16, 2013
Messages
42
Reaction score
3
Location
Brisbane
Country
llAustralia
SASL Mission 15 (Pursuit): bullet two of the "S? Placement/Exit" instructions, replace "or" with "of", so that it reads:
"one in each road hex west of the Road Network bridge or, if the bridge is part of a predominantly east-west road (i.e., a non-Road Network road), on the EBE side of the non-Road Network side".
 

afantozzi

Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
92
Reaction score
11
Location
Milan
First name
Andrea
Country
llItaly
SASL Mission 15 (Pursuit): bullet two of the "S? Placement/Exit" instructions, replace "or" with "of", so that it reads:
"one in each road hex west of the Road Network bridge or, if the bridge is part of a predominantly east-west road (i.e., a non-Road Network road), on the EBE side of the non-Road Network side".
Thank you very much! I have that errata but still I cannot understand what it means...
The phrase "if the bridge is part of a predominantly east-west road (i.e., a non-Road Network road)..." makes no sense to me. The Bridge MUST be part of the Road-Network. This is required by the Map Configuration. I know that can there be "other" bridges but there is always a Bridge that is part of the Road-Network... What am I missing? :rolleyes:
 

Robert Fabbro

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Messages
109
Reaction score
31
Location
Coquitlam BC
Country
llCanada
SASL Mission 15 (Pursuit): bullet two of the "S? Placement/Exit" instructions, replace "or" with "of", so that it reads:
"one in each road hex west of the Road Network bridge or, if the bridge is part of a predominantly east-west road (i.e., a non-Road Network road), on the EBE side of the non-Road Network side".
Bump! After all these years, the meaning of the latter part of this instruction continues to evade, baffle, and keep me awake at nights (Ok, not really).

Can anyone provide some direction on what this might mean?

In the meantime, I find that just ignoring the last part of this instruction takes away most of the angst, but it bugs me that I find this one sentence in the entire canon of ASL materials so seemingly nonsensical.

Any thoughts?
 
Last edited:

Ahriman667

Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Messages
302
Reaction score
206
Location
Here
Country
llCanada
FBE is at the top, EBE at the bottom; North is too the right. Note the two bridges on mapboard 5.
  1. Road Network is 56 hexes long so the game lasts 11 turns.
  2. In this example Grain is in effect, which greatly increased the number of Black S?
  3. The second bullet; I only placed S? up to the closest bridge to the FBE. Seems to be the spirit of the mission and the MSR's.
  4. 23 Grey S? means 23 VP for the EN, you can get a maximum of 20VP for BOTH bridges, so cutting off as many grey counters as possible is key.
  5. Both bridges should have a chance of being blown by a AE Sq with a Set DC, with each getting a AE HS as per mission.
  6. That's a lot of S? counters, so for this mission I would use the Northward flank to bypass most of the initial S? using CX and leadership bonus as much as possible (heavies can bring up the rear) and try and cut off as many grey S? as possible. Ideally, a Leader and 3 squads with LMGs in 33EE10 by end 2nd MPh. You should have a chance of intercepting the last +/- 9 counters, Activating them. Then go for the bridges.
  7. This might be as bad as I can see it going. Hope for a low AC roll and play germans or americans and you might stand a chance.
First Bullet
13715
Second Bullet
13717
Third Bullet
13718
Fourth Bullet
13716
 

Robert Fabbro

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Messages
109
Reaction score
31
Location
Coquitlam BC
Country
llCanada
Thank you, Ahriman667.

I appreciate the time it must have taken you to provide such a thorough and complete example. Your notes are very helpful as well.

I may have to give this set-up a try!

Regards,
Rob
 

Ahriman667

Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Messages
302
Reaction score
206
Location
Here
Country
llCanada
No problem.

Here are the mapboards that might have applicable road network bridges (according to the original Mapboard Selection Table (A9):
5, 7, 13, 18, 32, 36, 40, 47, 50
 

Steed

Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2007
Messages
140
Reaction score
79
Location
Naugatuck, CT
First name
Walter
Country
llUnited States
I'll add my thanks to this also. Just got this mission and wasn't sure about that second bullet. LOTS of S?!
 
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
124
Reaction score
96
Location
Virginia
Country
llUnited States
I always play this as Robert indicates (ignoring the last inscrutable part of the instructions in bullet 2) and Ahriman has set up. It seems like the author has tacked on that last bit against some unusual circumstance but I can't for the life of me figure out what it would be. I expect to go to the grave without knowing.

I've played this one 4 times over the years (3-1 record) and I must say it's not one of my favorites, (better than "Escape" though.) The 'leaving' S? and the bridges are usually just an inelegant way to handicap the mission by giving the ENEMY some free VP to balance the many CVP you're likely to pile up. Barring fortunate terrain (e.g. a 3 level hill close to the FBE with relatively open terrain on the next boards) or an early flank attack RE you usually won't early-activate many of the leaving S?. An early, strong flank attack RE seems like the only realistic way to prevent the enemy blowing the bridge (I've never managed it.)

I'd take issue with Ahriman's advice in his note #4. He's not wrong that you should early-activate as many S? as is feasible, but since most of the time that's going to be pretty limited my opinion is the real key is just killing as many ENEMY as you can to rack up offsetting VP.
 

Steed

Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2007
Messages
140
Reaction score
79
Location
Naugatuck, CT
First name
Walter
Country
llUnited States
I always play this as Robert indicates (ignoring the last inscrutable part of the instructions in bullet 2) and Ahriman has set up. It seems like the author has tacked on that last bit against some unusual circumstance but I can't for the life of me figure out what it would be. I expect to go to the grave without knowing.
......
I 100% agree with this.

.....
I've played this one 4 times over the years (3-1 record) and I must say it's not one of my favorites, (better than "Escape" though.) The 'leaving' S? and the bridges are usually just an inelegant way to handicap the mission by giving the ENEMY some free VP to balance the many CVP you're likely to pile up. Barring fortunate terrain (e.g. a 3 level hill close to the FBE with relatively open terrain on the next boards) or an early flank attack RE you usually won't early-activate many of the leaving S?. An early, strong flank attack RE seems like the only realistic way to prevent the enemy blowing the bridge (I've never managed it.)

I'd take issue with Ahriman's advice in his note #4. He's not wrong that you should early-activate as many S? as is feasible, but since most of the time that's going to be pretty limited my opinion is the real key is just killing as many ENEMY as you can to rack up offsetting VP.
Played 4 times and your record is 3-1, I feel more confident now. Especially since we lucked out and rolled 3 boards that are pretty wide open ( farm ) with lots of grain fields and walls/hedges. I think this will allow us to go along the southern edge without activating too many S? counters. We should be able to get to the middle board before too many grays leave. Well that was the game plan last night after setting it up, but I'd bet that'll change before we actually play. I don't think we'll try for the bridges ( see how things develop ).

But that does bring up a question - most of the S? counters are in open hexes ( on a road but no concealment terrain ). Since it's not concealment terrain, will they activate when we have LOS to them (same as loss of concealment)? I don't think we've had this come up before.

EDIT :

This has come up before, usually when the ENEMY is the attacker and is moving in open ground (no concealment terrain). We've been playing it as a lost concealment action and activating them. Not sure if that's right though...........
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
124
Reaction score
96
Location
Virginia
Country
llUnited States
My understanding of the concealment gain/loss table as well as S3.31 would suggest that just being stationary in open terrain w/ LOS to foes will not cause loss of concealment (and thus S? activation), moving on the other hand will usually cause concealment loss (barring unusual circumstances like night or obscuring hindrances that cause loss of LOS.) I'd let items A-D of the infantry line of the concealment gain/loss table be your guide. Section S3.3 also pretty well lists that causes of S? activation.

If the terrain is open also keep long range activation in mind - the odds are low, but if you're dancing around for a big enough audience long enough somebody with an HMG usually crashes the party...
 

Steed

Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2007
Messages
140
Reaction score
79
Location
Naugatuck, CT
First name
Walter
Country
llUnited States
My understanding of the concealment gain/loss table as well as S3.31 would suggest that just being stationary in open terrain w/ LOS to foes will not cause loss of concealment (and thus S? activation), moving on the other hand will usually cause concealment loss (barring unusual circumstances like night or obscuring hindrances that cause loss of LOS.) I'd let items A-D of the infantry line of the concealment gain/loss table be your guide. Section S3.3 also pretty well lists that causes of S? activation.

If the terrain is open also keep long range activation in mind - the odds are low, but if you're dancing around for a big enough audience long enough somebody with an HMG usually crashes the party...

Thank you.
 
Top