Question About Kampfgruppe Scherer: The Shield of Cholm

[Bob Walters]

I would like to get this module but I have read it requires the Rules from Valor of the Guards which I do not have. How necessary is owning these rules? Is there a work around? I am not worried about the other rule that it requires as I have access to those.

 

[jrv]

You need the rules for Gutted Buildings from VotG, or their equivalent. You need debris and cellar rules from RB and/or VotG. If you plan to play the Campaign Game you desperately need Red Barricades, although you could substitute Valor of the Guards there. You need Irrigation Ditches from Pegasus Bridge.

JR

 

[Vinnie]

It's worth picking up as you will be able to find people who can help you with those rules.

 

[Philippe D.]

You should also be aware that KGS is rather more complex than other HASL, and targets rather "expert" players.

But the map (which, as you probably know, comes in two versions - a "winter" version and a "spring", with some more destruction applied) is gorgeous enough that I'm happy I got this, "just in case" I find the time and energy (and space!) to play it.

 

[Vinnie]

Space is a good point. My back was wrecked reaching into the middle of the map. At four feet wide, it's a bugger.

 

[Bob Walters]

HASLs can also serve as a tool to learn about a specific battle in a way not possible from a book.

 

[Philippe D.]

I don't know about learning about battles, I only care about the game. And I'm afraid going with KGS isn't the best way to learn about playing HASLs (I'm not sure what the best way would be, actually. Red Barricades is the oldest, and stil a great favorite, but is still a little bit on the "fat" side).

 

[BattleSchool]

HASLs can also serve as a tool to learn about a specific battle in a way not possible from a book.

If you would like to learn some more about the battle, try some of the links in my post here. (See comments section at end of post.) One website features a walkabout of the battlefield.

I added a couple of book recommendations on the siege can be found at the end of the article.

Finally, Andy (the designer) has included many photos (and a commentary by another historian of the battle) in the accompanying historical booklet.

 

[Bob Walters]

If you would like to learn some more about the battle, try some of the links in my post here. (See comments section at end of post.) One website features a walkabout of the battlefield.

I added a couple of book recommendations on the siege can be found at the end of the article.

Finally, Andy (the designer) has included many photos (and a commentary by another historian of the battle) in the accompanying historical booklet.

Thank you!

 

[RRschultze]

Space is a good point. My back was wrecked reaching into the middle of the map. At four feet wide, it's a bugger.

And that was before you played the blown up version I put together at heroes!

 

[Gunner Scott]

"complex" this module truly is. I think there were maybe two scenarios in KGS that were devoid of wall to wall SSR's. My buddy and I love the east front but after we looked at the amount of rules in this one we decided to play Red Barricades. It is a very well produced module and will look nice on your shelf, but good luck finding someone who will want to dive in the over the top complexity of this module.

Designers should always ask themselves, why does RB still get played on a consistent basis? Than look at their work and say, will my piece of crap module get played as much?

Scott

You should also be aware that KGS is rather more complex than other HASL, and targets rather "expert" players.

 

[Bob Walters]

There is another side to this in that yes it is very complex and I would probably not tackle it for awhile, however, I can also get a decent price on it now. If, instead, I wait until I am totally familiar with the rules then it is likely to be unavailable unless I am willing to pay hundreds of dollars.

 

[volgaG68]

There is another side to this in that yes it is very complex and I would probably not tackle it for awhile, however, I can also get a decent price on it now. If, instead, I wait until I am totally familiar with the rules then it is likely to be unavailable unless I am willing to pay hundreds of dollars.

Yep, if the subject matter interests you, buy it now if you have the money (ASL Rule #1) or it will cost a pretty penny down the road. If your experience level or rules-fu never reaches that level, you will always be able to resell it for what you paid for it, at a minimum.

 

[JRKrejsa]

You should also be aware that KGS is rather more complex than other HASL, and targets rather "expert" players.

But the map (which, as you probably know, comes in two versions - a "winter" version and a "spring", with some more destruction applied) is gorgeous enough that I'm happy I got this, "just in case" I find the time and energy (and space!) to play it.

It is complex, but I did not think it was all that horrible. There are provided cheat sheets, and I always scribble down the relevant CG SSR and terrain specific rules prior to playing. So I have a reference. I wouldn't let the complexity of this product scare you off. It's great stuff.

 

[Tysken]

I second Volga & Krejsa's opinion - get it while it is there and it is not that complicated. As long as you and your gaming partner (in case you play not solo) have a good time who cares about complexity?View it like an unique opportunity to learn new rules, analyse in different ways and challenge your traditional way of "ASL thinking".

//Tysken

The German setup is ready, the Russian has made his choices for the block bombardment and we are waiting to kick "Red Army Day" off on VASL/Skype

 

[Justiciar]

...

Designers should always ask themselves, why does RB still get played on a consistent basis? Than look at their work and say, will my piece of crap module get played as much?

Scott

The objective is not how many burgers have been sold, though clearly you like dining at such places, which is fine, for others there is another place down the road a bit with a 'star' on it that satisfies a hunger of a different sort. Each in their own way is a good meal...however, some need a satisfaction of a different sort. Thankfully, there are producers who cater to that need...and RB will see a new table setting with what is to come in Red Factories...so everyone has a place to dine. But there is also always a table set for you in Cholm...when you are ready. Meanwhile, other guests are enjoying the meal.

Andy

 

[Bob Walters]

The objective is not how many burgers have been sold, though clearly you like dining at such place, which is fine, for others there is another place down the road a bit with a 'star' on it that satisfies a hunger of a different sort. Each in their own way is a good meal...however, some need a satisfaction of a different sort. Thankfully, there are producers who cater to that need...and RB will see a new table setting with what is to come in Red Factories...so everyone has a place to dine. But there is also always a table set for you in Cholm...when you are ready. Meanwhile, other guests are enjoying the meal.

Andy

Indeed, and the two are not mutually exclusive.

 

[clubby]

And it's not as if RB is not loaded with SSRs. They've just become second nature to those that play RB and/or VoTG. But there's still a page or more of SSRs.

 

[Gunner Scott]

ok, than impress me and lets see a boat load of AAR's on this module. Talking out of ones ass is one thing, actually putting your money where your mouth is another. Plus since you guys seem to want to compare it to RB as far as ease of play and what not, than get cracking on that CG and post some AAR's post stat.

 

[Justiciar]

You completely missed the point, which is par for the course for you.
My point and what the others are also saying is that there is room for both, it is not about comparison, it is about having the wonderful choice to play either type of ASL action, as opposed to having no choice at all.
I have played 1,000s of ASL scenarios, I have perhaps written *maybe* two dozen AARs and these very brief. I personally do not like to write AARs, there are others that love to do so and are very good at it with photos and diagrams and all sort of reader experience extras which makes great reading. But I am certain there are a host of others who, like me, don't write AARs either, each for their own reasons. I can't even be bothered to write a sentence that scenario Jxxx was great or average. I don't feel the need to regularly express my views in public about whether a scenario / CG is good, bad or in between. Why? B/c my view does not matter, what matters is the individual experience of the person that plays the scenario themselves, which for a variety of reasons (skill level, dice, individual tastes [e.g. some people dislike night, I don't]) will be different than my own.
Finally, you need to come to the realization that not every ASL scenario/module is designed with just you in mind Scott, as much as that would suit you and likely lead to less friction on this forum.