"Quality in ASL": Some Desperation Morale Spelunking

[Michael Dorosh]

I can see this as a rare necessity but like multiple overlays a PITA.

I don't object to 2 pagers, but to the spreading of SSR and Aftermath text over the entire page instead of being split into columns whenever 2 pages become necessary.

 

[Vic Provost]

Hi guys and Thanks again for your support, I know Mark was not trying to single me out and just wanted an example but I did initially feel a little disappointed that he did not show our improvements since then. He does fine work for the most part on his website and is a valuable asset to our hobby.

I am more disappointed in myself as some minor errata leaked through, even after having multiple eyeballs proof this several times. We work so hard on playtesting and proofreading but we are only human.

So it goes, see my post in the Rules/Errata link. I'm happy with the issue otherwise and hope you enjoy it, Vic.

 

[Actionjick]

I don't object to 2 pagers, but to the spreading of SSR and Aftermath text over the entire page instead of being split into columns whenever 2 pages become necessary.

I think Clearing the Breskins Pocket had a lot but IIRC mostly concerning the units from the previous two scenarios.

Mixed opinions about these
lengthy and complex SSRs. It is like having to learn a new rules section to play a scenario. Essentially the way SL was presented. Probably why I have mixed opinions, still a fan of SL.

The difference as I see it was this process in SL was meant to provide building blocks as a foundation for playing more complex scenarios down the road. Most SSRs are scenario specific or perhaps HASL specific.

 

[Actionjick]

Hi guys and Thanks again for your support, I know Mark was not trying to single me out and just wanted an example but I did initially feel a little disappointed that he did not show our improvements since then. He does fine work for the most part on his website and is a valuable asset to our hobby.

I am more disappointed in myself as some minor errata leaked through, even after having multiple eyeballs proof this several times. We work so hard on playtesting and proofreading but we are only human.

So it goes, see my post in the Rules/Errata link. I'm happy with the issue otherwise and hope you enjoy it, Vic.

Dude don't beat yourself up, these things happen. I playtested the original ASL rules and thought we did a pretty good job. Yet thirty five plus years later mistakes and oversights are still being found. I don't beat myself up over that as I still think a good job was done by all the developers and playtesters. It's just an amazingly complex game, that's the crux of the biscuit. ''''

 

[Vic Provost]

Yes indeed my ASL friend, this game system is so complicated and detail oriented that no matter how hard we try, something always seems to leak through, no matter how hard we try.

That we have so many fanatic consumers of everything ASL who find these things is actually healthy for the game and the greater community. We fix stuff as we go as we so love this game system and want to make it as best as it can be. For MMP and most TPPs this is very much true. It sure is here.

Thanks again for all you and Fish did to get this hobby going, we knew of you here in New England back in the 1980s as we were starting to put our own club together. Glad you are still here and rolling dice, Vic.

 

[Actionjick]

Yes indeed my ASL friend, this game system is so complicated and detail oriented that no matter how hard we try, something always seems to leak through, no matter how hard we try.

That we have so many fanatic consumers of everything ASL who find these things is actually healthy for the game and the greater community. We fix stuff as we go as we so love this game system and want to make it as best as it can be. For MMP and most TPPs this is very much true. It sure is here.

Thanks again for all you and Fish did to get this hobby going, we knew of you here in New England back in the 1980s as we were starting to put our own club together. Glad you are still here and rolling dice, Vic.

I do think it's healthy that those who love this system strive to improve it even if it is by exploring and exposing it's flaws.


Thanks for your kind words. The vain part of my psyche likes to think we contributed to the hobby. The modest part realizes we got much more out of it than we ever contributed.

Don't roll the dice any longer but find almost as much satisfaction in the camaraderie this forum supplies as I did when actively playing. I know Fish felt the same way. Another amazing aspect of the system that it can exert such a hold on individuals, even those who haven't played in decades.

 

[Vic Provost]

I can't imagine stopping my dice rolling, once I can actually roll with an actual ftf opponent again but you are so right, as much as we may have contributed to this hobby over time, in the long run we have gotten so much more out of this wonderful hobby. My wife is in awe over how my hobby friends turned into my lifelong friends and she is will be happy to see my ASL friends come over once again. Can't wait for the 'All Clear' so we can make that happen again, Vic.

 

[Actionjick]

I can't imagine stopping my dice rolling, once I can actually roll with an actual ftf opponent again but you are so right, as much as we may have contributed to this hobby over time, in the long run we have gotten so much more out of this wonderful hobby. My wife is in awe over how my hobby friends turned into my lifelong friends and she is will be happy to see my ASL friends come over once again. Can't wait for the 'All Clear' so we can make that happen again, Vic.

Hopefully you will be enjoying some ftf gunnin in the not too distant future. Until then stay safe and be well.

 

[Old Noob]

FTF gaming will occur, when everyone has received their shots.

 

[Whiskers1123]

Is that an order? I think I'll pass on the untested jab. Just have them in a Conservative Free State. They are all fully open.

 

[Sparafucil3]

Is that an order? I think I'll pass on the untested jab.

Another reason we won't play I guess. Shrug. -- jim

 

[hongkongwargamer]

@Pitman I pulled up scenarios from the latest DftB issue. I don't think the SSRs are hard to read at all, but of course it's a matter of opinion. Having said that, to single DftB out and make that general "hard to read" assertion based on an old issue without any references to improvements made in newer ones is misleading at best and does your readers no favors.

 

[bendizoid]

Is that an order? I think I'll pass on the untested jab. Just have them in a Conservative Free State. They are all fully open.

vacinazis !

 

[STAVKA]

vacinazis !

Vacin-tatto-in-armpit-passport.

 

[Old Noob]

I regret having lit a match, regarding a volatile subject.

 

[Vic Provost]

I got mine and sure glad I did. End of discussion on that one, from me anyhow, Vic.

 

[Pitman]

@Pitman I pulled up scenarios from the latest DftB issue. I don't think the SSRs are hard to read at all, but of course it's a matter of opinion. Having said that, to single DftB out and make that general "hard to read" assertion based on an old issue without any references to improvements made in newer ones is misleading at best and does your readers no favors.

DFTB still has the problem of full justified text appearing in boxes with extremely small margins.

 

[hongkongwargamer]

DFTB still has the problem of full justified text appearing in boxes with extremely small margins.

This is your "illustration" in your blog post


This is what it actually looks like in the latest DftB scenario cards

This is a comparison from a CdG2 scenario

1. RE: the illustration in your post - I am guessing that the actual page do not start and end with the text box. The ACTUAL page and therefore the ACTUAL margin is wider than what you chose to show. Had I choose to make a cutout from ANY publisher's scenario card cutting REALLY close to the text, I can achieve the same effect you did with your DftB cutout.
2. We are not Page Layout Artist United discussing whatever inherent evils you try to imply with "full justified text appearing in boxes with extremely small margins". Your blog singled out the DftB as "a notorious offender" with layouts that "really punish the eyes", so I take your point as one of readability. I agree with you, that example you showed is hard to read, especially if the page starts and ends with the text box.
3. The latest examples I pulled from recent scenarios are both pretty easy to read, text box notwithstanding. Notice also, I didn't lower the resolution in my examples like you did in your blog post.
4. Hang on .. did you have a problem with "full-justified text" as well?

Can you tell me that the latest DftB layout "really punish the eyes"?

Mark, "you know I’m a fan of your [blog], which has many good qualities", but to single DftB out and make that general "hard to read" assertion based on a cut out from an old issue without any reference to improvements made in newer ones is misleading at best and does your readers no favors.

 

[Vic Provost]

This is your "illustration" in your blog post
View attachment 17508

This is what it actually looks like in the latest DftB scenario cards
View attachment 17509
This is a comparison from a CdG2 scenario
View attachment 17506

1. RE: the illustration in your post - I am guessing that the actual page do not start and end with the text box. The ACTUAL page and therefore the ACTUAL margin is wider than what you chose to show. Had I choose to make a cutout from ANY publisher's scenario card cutting REALLY close to the text, I can achieve the same effect you did with your DftB cutout.
2. We are not Page Layout Artist United discussing whatever inherent evils you try to imply with "full justified text appearing in boxes with extremely small margins". Your blog singled out the DftB as "a notorious offender" with layouts that "really punish the eyes", so I take your point as one of readability. I agree with you, that example you showed is hard to read, especially if the page starts and ends with the text box.
3. The latest examples I pulled from recent scenarios are both pretty easy to read, text box notwithstanding. Notice also, I didn't lower the resolution in my examples like you did in your blog post.
4. Hang on .. did you have a problem with "full-justified text" as well?

Can you tell me that the latest DftB layout "really punish the eyes"?

Mark, "you know I’m a fan of your [blog], which has many good qualities", but to single DftB out and make that general "hard to read" assertion based on a cut out from an old issue without any reference to improvements made in newer ones is misleading at best and does your readers no favors.

Thanks Jackson, I appreciate what you did above, Tom thinks this is really nit-picking, this entire industry has text that is hard on the eyes for older folks at times. The boxes are irrelevant and just a design I went for to differentiate me from AH and then MMP.

I like Mark's blog as well, he does a nice job and as I said, is an asset to the community.

I just as soon drop this subject, more tempest in a teapot at this point.

Let's all pull in the same direction, I will continue to try to make the newsletter as readable as I can and will continue to visit Desperation Morale, Vic.

 

[Actionjick]

Thanks Jackson, I appreciate what you did above, Tom thinks this is really nit-picking, this entire industry has text that is hard on the eyes for older folks at times. The boxes are irrelevant and just a design I went for to differentiate me from AH and then MMP.

I like Mark's blog as well, he does a nice job and as I said, is an asset to the community.

I just as soon drop this subject, more tempest in a teapot at this point.

Let's all pull in the same direction, I will continue to try to make the newsletter as readable as I can and will continue to visit Desperation Morale, Vic.

Very nice sentiment Sir!